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#507460 - 01/19/23 08:30 AM
Re: What makes us change arrangers?
[Re: Diki]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14237
Loc: NW Florida
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Sadly, although we have access to thousands of styles, many of them converted from other brands, the pace of creation of styles for the CURRENT models has pretty much dried up. You tend to only get impressive new styles along with a new model, and those often leverage new sounds and kits or features like new guitar modes or multiple drum tracks, and can’t play on older models.
Then there’s the issue of taking older styles and converted styles and editing them to be as impressive as the best of the new batch. That usually involves quite a bit of editing to get drum kits to hit the sweet spot of sample crossover, and a fair bit of rebalancing styles and inserting effects correctly (if you even can use inserted effects on style parts), and dealing with note ranges and wraparound. And don’t get me started about translating one brand’s guitar mode to another’s!
For me, the goal is consistency… if one style blows me away, I want them ALL to blow me away. Sadly, I seldom get that from legacy styles and conversions. The new model arrangers latest always raise the bar!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#507466 - 01/19/23 01:46 PM
Re: What makes us change arrangers?
[Re: Diki]
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Member
Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Arbroath,Angus,Scotland
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For me I spend a lot of time remixing, rebalancing and finding ways of manipulating a style.
Some say the older styles are better programmed, alot of styles can be way to busy. For me generic styles offer more flexibility than just using song styles.
_________________________
Gem Wk4, Solton Ms60, Technics Kn5000, Korg Pa50sd, Yamaha Psr k1, Tyros 4, Korg Pa700
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#507470 - 01/20/23 10:36 AM
Re: What makes us change arrangers?
[Re: Diki]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14237
Loc: NW Florida
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While older styles tend to be a lot more generic and general purpose (personally, I hate songstyles. I’d much prefer a decent SMF or audio track if I want to sound really close to the original), they tend to be quite weak in the guitar programming and dynamic sound or the drum kit, because most of them come from an era before guitar modes and multiple level drum samples.
Back in the day, there was very little difference between a high velocity drum part with the volume turned down, and a low velocity drum part with the volume turned up. One sample per drum sound… Nowadays, with drum sounds like snare and Tom’s with four or more samples per sound, where the velocity and volume sit becomes critical. Most of the older styles I occasionally use had to have a ton of time editing spent n them to get the same level of dynamics as the latest styles.
In fairness, Roland (until they quit making TOTL arrangers) tended to have fewer recognizable songstyles than most, but it has become a disturbing trend with Yamaha and Korg.
One trick I have used from time to time to spruce up an old generic style is to replace the guitar parts with a ‘borrowed’ guitar part from another similar but current style, which should be a lot better with the modern guitar modes.
I have to confess, having done some style editing on Korg’s, I’m not sure I’d bother much, as Korg don’t have a global way to mess with velocity dynamics on individual drums, you have to do it not only on each variation, but also on each CV (chord variation). That’s an insane amount of work just to do something like bring up the velocity on the snare and lower its volume!
Korg need to copy Roland’s Makeup Tools editing system. This is a one step process for an entire style with a Roland… The easier you make something, the more likely the players will use it!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#507474 - 01/21/23 12:02 PM
Re: What makes us change arrangers?
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15574
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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I have thousands of song specific, custom, style files on hand, many of which sound fantastic to say the very least. As for the guitars, they can be individually tuned, then saved in the style, thus replacing the one that is in the original, thereby providing a significant improvement in the overall style sound. Many of Yamaha's and other manufacturers onboard styles are a bit too busy, but fortunately we have the ability to mute any of those segments of the style, then save it as a user file that can be instantly accessed with a single touch of a button on the Music Finder Directory or registration. All of this is so very easy and can be accomplished on most TOTL arranger keyboards. No tablets, PCs or special software needed! I still have my trusty Yamaha S-950, I have replaced a few buttons, still using the original keypads, and thousands of music jobs, endless hours of playing at home, it works, and sounds, as good as the day it came out of the box. Really no reason to upgrade. Here's a classic example of an onboard style that I modified the OTS guitar voice to perform The Wreck Of The Edmond Fitzgerald Here's another that I modified for the song Black Velvet. In this style, both the drums and guitar were modified and saved into the style. More often than not, just utilizing the variations of any style file can make a huge difference. The lower variations frequently allow you to highlight your vocals, while at the same time providing you with beautiful, simplistic backing. A good example of this is the onboard style I used for Annie's Song. I changed variations to "C" for the bridge, then went back to the "A" variation to finish out the song. Most of MY audiences loved anything John Denver, which made life easy for me. As I stated earlier, all of these things can be done on most TOTL and mid range arranger keyboards. For me, updating from my old S-950 was out of the question. I only wish I would have held up, physically, as well as the keyboard did. The keyboard was easily and inexpensively repaired, while in my case, they removed a lot of body parts and some never got replaced. Good luck, Gary
Edited by travlin'easy (01/21/23 12:16 PM)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#507475 - 01/21/23 01:52 PM
Re: What makes us change arrangers?
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5519
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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Very good, Gary. I am ashamed to say I never have tried modifying any style except for normal balancing. Thanks for posting. I will try it.
Bernie
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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