SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 2 of 12 < 1 2 3 4 11 12 >
Topic Options
#506661 - 09/30/22 06:32 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Ingres Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 86
Loc: FWI
Keep on doing the good job, AJ!
Ketron users are confident ... and waiting...
_________________________
from now on, on some forums, I make a screen copy... in case... time will tell
imagine some people you know having more power...luckily God knows best! Take it easy ... and funny!

Top
#506662 - 09/30/22 10:14 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By Ketron_AJ
Originally Posted By Diki
As always, with audio loop backing, I want to hear it deals with more than basic maj min and 7ths.

Where’s the 6/9’s? Where’s the augmented chords? Where’s the open 5’s? Where’s the half diminished? Where’s the 7#9’s?

For it to impress professionals, shouldn’t it be able to play more than basic chords?

And sorry, but we have moved WAY past sampled saxes that tongue every note. Articulated at a minimum, modeled for true ‘pro’ results.

I know these audio loop things impress when deliberately restricted to basic chords, but surely in these days of SSD’s and fast streaming, why can’t we have audio loops of more than three or four basic chords?


With the EVENT, you the user can now create your own Live Guitar and audio arrangements so the sky is the limit.

I am sure once it is released and you purchase one, you will be able to dig in deeper and experiment to the fullest with how it handles these other chord variants [Where’s the 6/9’s? Where’s the augmented chords? Where’s the open 5’s? Where’s the half diminished? Where’s the 7#9’s?] which if missing you can produce for your styles and taste of music. That is the beauty of this keyboard - the power is in the hands of the end user to create whatever they want.

why can’t we have audio loops of more than three or four basic chords?We can. You can have up to 1024 Audio Guitar chord wave-files per style assigned to a style so if what is provided isn't enough, you can add even more chord variations to the table.


So, to be clear, if I want to play music with more than utterly basic chords, I will have to hire a studio for days, pay a guitarist, horn section, string section, a bass player, and spend hours trying to get them to play the same pattern in all keys with metronomic precision, then spend days auditioning the loops to balance them and make sure they transition well to other chords.

For every single style I feel like playing more than 3 or 4 basic chords.

Yeah, right. 🙄 I will not be buying one. The arranger will cost next to nothing compared to what I would have to pay just to make a few styles.

This is the rabbit hole of audio loop backing. I truly believe it’s a dead end. There are quite spectacularly good VSTi’s that sound utterly convincing doing guitar strumming and picking. Acoustic and electric. And they play all chords, all positions, correctly voiced. Same with virtual basses. Integrate one of those into an arranger, you get the same results as an audio loop, but without the drastic reduction of chord types available.

An insane suggestion to ‘make your own audio styles if you want more than basic chords’ is truly no solution whatsoever. The fact that the machine IS capable of covering all commonly used chords (which is a damn sight more that maj min and 7ths!) but Ketron did not actually bother recording them all while they were creating them shows what these would cost. Or did you only record the bare minimum because you have a poor opinion about the skill off you customers?

That suggestion is an insult to anyone with even a basic knowledge of recording.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#506663 - 09/30/22 11:19 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
It'll be interesting to see which will happen first.....

1. A manufacturer will make an arranger that meets all your needs...

OR

2. Jesus comes back.

For the record, I'm betting on No. 2.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

Top
#506664 - 09/30/22 11:33 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Diki]
Ingres Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 86
Loc: FWI
Each person, each experience, each need... smile
Genos and PA5X have their fans; this one will have ... mainly about those who TRULY KNOWS Ketron.
I am awaiting more details and launching, as it is usual for every machine.
Time will tell; no need to interfere each day and condemn in advance ... especially not knowing all the specification, price .... and real users advices....

it ends up looking like a personal crusade
Just my feeling...
_________________________
from now on, on some forums, I make a screen copy... in case... time will tell
imagine some people you know having more power...luckily God knows best! Take it easy ... and funny!

Top
#506666 - 09/30/22 03:26 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Diki]
Ketron_AJ Offline
Moderator

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3590
Loc: Middletown, DE
Originally Posted By Diki
Originally Posted By Ketron_AJ
Originally Posted By Diki
As always, with audio loop backing, I want to hear it deals with more than basic maj min and 7ths.

Where’s the 6/9’s? Where’s the augmented chords? Where’s the open 5’s? Where’s the half diminished? Where’s the 7#9’s?

For it to impress professionals, shouldn’t it be able to play more than basic chords?

And sorry, but we have moved WAY past sampled saxes that tongue every note. Articulated at a minimum, modeled for true ‘pro’ results.

I know these audio loop things impress when deliberately restricted to basic chords, but surely in these days of SSD’s and fast streaming, why can’t we have audio loops of more than three or four basic chords?


With the EVENT, you the user can now create your own Live Guitar and audio arrangements so the sky is the limit.

I am sure once it is released and you purchase one, you will be able to dig in deeper and experiment to the fullest with how it handles these other chord variants [Where’s the 6/9’s? Where’s the augmented chords? Where’s the open 5’s? Where’s the half diminished? Where’s the 7#9’s?] which if missing you can produce for your styles and taste of music. That is the beauty of this keyboard - the power is in the hands of the end user to create whatever they want.

why can’t we have audio loops of more than three or four basic chords?We can. You can have up to 1024 Audio Guitar chord wave-files per style assigned to a style so if what is provided isn't enough, you can add even more chord variations to the table.


So, to be clear, if I want to play music with more than utterly basic chords, I will have to hire a studio for days, pay a guitarist, horn section, string section, a bass player, and spend hours trying to get them to play the same pattern in all keys with metronomic precision, then spend days auditioning the loops to balance them and make sure they transition well to other chords.

For every single style I feel like playing more than 3 or 4 basic chords.

Yeah, right. 🙄 I will not be buying one. The arranger will cost next to nothing compared to what I would have to pay just to make a few styles.

This is the rabbit hole of audio loop backing. I truly believe it’s a dead end. There are quite spectacularly good VSTi’s that sound utterly convincing doing guitar strumming and picking. Acoustic and electric. And they play all chords, all positions, correctly voiced. Same with virtual basses. Integrate one of those into an arranger, you get the same results as an audio loop, but without the drastic reduction of chord types available.

An insane suggestion to ‘make your own audio styles if you want more than basic chords’ is truly no solution whatsoever. The fact that the machine IS capable of covering all commonly used chords (which is a damn sight more that maj min and 7ths!) but Ketron did not actually bother recording them all while they were creating them shows what these would cost. Or did you only record the bare minimum because you have a poor opinion about the skill off you customers?

That suggestion is an insult to anyone with even a basic knowledge of recording.


Sorry that you took the suggestion as an insult. When you make suggestions to others, I hope they too do not feel likewise but take it for what it is - a suggestion.

Finding out exactly what chord tables are filled by KETRON and which you/the user will have to fill (if required) can again only be accomplished accurately if you/the user purchase or try out the machine. Even the features of other manufacturers have to be tried out before purchases to see if they will suit your needs. Audio may not suit yours or it might be above your budget and that is ok. However, for those who see this path as a positive one, the KETRON products (in general) and EVENT (in particular) are for you.

Thanks,

AJ
_________________________
[KETRON - USA]
Design Engineer & Product Specialist.
www.KetronAmerica.com

Top
#506667 - 09/30/22 06:15 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
rphillipchuk Online   content
Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 659
Loc: Ontario Canada
Well Said AJ.
_________________________
Yamaha DGX-670, Yamaha MW12, Yamaha MSP10's, Yamaha SW10 Subwoofer.

Styles
Yamaha Styles Only
Midi Safe



Top
#506670 - 10/01/22 11:19 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
I’m trying to think of a professional that DOESN’T regularly need to play more than three chord types.

Nope. Can’t think of one.

We’re not talking arcane jazz chords here. How about a simple sus4? Or the ubiquitous diminished? Or the odd augmented…

These are common chord types that don’t phase a MIDI based arranger one iota. And several arranger brands have Guitar Mode systems that voice guitar chords and strumming and picking techniques quite accurately. Maybe not quite as well as some of the best VSTi’s yet, but they are getting much closer.

All I’m trying to say is that the price for a 100% realistic guitar part is too high if it can’t even play the basic chords a regular arranger can. It’s like making an utterly convincing stage piano, but only the white notes! Play everything in diatonic C, it will fool anybody. Need the odd black note, you’re screwed.

Maybe telling me that if I want more than the barebones three or four chord types, I have to make my own guitar loops wasn’t intended as an insult. But it certainly demonstrated a complete lack of awareness about how much work and expense it would take for even one style.

I don’t have anything against Ketron, there are many forward thinking ideas they have implemented, they make some amazing arrangers. All I’m trying to suggest is that, compared to taking a harder look at developing a proper Guitar Mode system like Steinbetg Virtual Guitarist or AAS Strum (or even just like Korg’s system or Roland’s one from the G70/E/80), taking the easy way out and using a few basic audio guitar loops is actually a step backwards, not forwards.

My goal has always been for the arranger to back what I want to play. Not dictate what I can and can’t play because it only can play a handful of chords.

I don’t think that’s waiting for Jesus to come. It is already here. It just needs implementing.

You are about to hear some amazing demos of the new Ketron. But what you WON’T be hearing is the demonstrator playing anything the arranger doesn’t do well. You’ll have to buy one to find that out for yourself. 😂🎹😎
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#506672 - 10/01/22 11:42 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
Just a thought, but has Ketron made any effort to provide copy protection for third party user created content? It strikes me that yes, it might be worth it for someone to take on the expense of creating far more comprehensive guitar chord choices if they can be guaranteed that they won’t be traded around for free after one person buys the style.

But if they can be pirated, it won’t be worth the bother.

I think we would all benefit from a huge spike in third party content if the talented people who do it have an easy way to make sure they get paid for their work. Sadly, the almost complete collapse of the third party style industry (couple of decades ago there was a much better selection of styles from third party vendors than today) is mostly the result of easy piracy. It’s only worth the effort if you can be guaranteed each sale is to one person alone.

Yamaha’s system works quite well (I think we have a member here that helps make some of their Latin styles), so it apparently can be done. I think Korg’s new PA5X also has significantly improved their copy protection system.

Do Ketron have something like those?

I can see the potential for third party vendors stepping in to improve the barebones chord choices if they do…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#506673 - 10/01/22 12:17 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Ingres Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 86
Loc: FWI
... ... ... boring...
...
waiting for constructive words on real things by AJ, Sokratis or whatever else...
I wish I were an admin to spread any thougths on whatever topic!
_________________________
from now on, on some forums, I make a screen copy... in case... time will tell
imagine some people you know having more power...luckily God knows best! Take it easy ... and funny!

Top
#506674 - 10/01/22 12:29 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ingres]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By Ingres
... ... ... boring...
...
waiting for constructive words on real things by AJ, Sokratis or whatever else...
I wish I were an admin to spread any thougths on whatever topic!


Apparently, you don’t need admin status to do that… 😂
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
Page 2 of 12 < 1 2 3 4 11 12 >

Moderator:  Admin, Diki, Kerry 



Help keep Synth Zone Online