I am using Cakewalk Bandlab as my DAW to do all my MIDI sequencing and routing to a BK9 as the midi sound source.

I go to the 16 track sequencer in the Bk9 to select all my sounds for each channel, apply effects, mastering, mixing etc etc (Basically like setting up a studio set that you would do in a synth). everything works... but I have noticed that after exiting the sequencer it all reverts back to nothing. I have to manually re select all my sounds again and apply all the effects.. very very tedious and annoying. I have tried saving the 16 track sequencer as a song or even a performance but after I call it up it never brings up all the saved sounds that I applied to each channel...

I am yet to try this with my G70 as well but I am confident the same issue will still occur.

Am I doing something wrong here or am I using the wrong type of keyboard to achieve what I want?

I understand Instrument Definition Files are another method of calling up sounds on the keyboard straight from Cakewalk but there is no IDF for the BK9 or the G70 (I have searched the internet high and dry). And I am not keen on making my own as it would take me so long given the amount of sounds in these keyboards.

Thanks

HI Nick G

Your first paragraph says that you use Bandlab for all your sequencing, but in the second paragraph you say you use the BK9 sequencer, so which is it?

If you are doing everything in the BK9 then you need to save the sequence in the BK9 or it will be lost when you change to something else. (Arranger Keyboard sequencers are normally pretty limited though)

If you are using Bandlab then you have to select the appropriate program change and cc codes to tell the BK9 what to do before saving the sequence in Bandlab. (Arranger keyboards tend to have limited Midi capabilities so you may not be able to do everything you want when using Bandlab and the BK9 together)

If you can explain your setup a bit more it will make it easier to help, also how much knowledge about how Midi works do you have so that an answer can be appropriately.

Bill

I am doing all the sequencing in Cakewalk bandlab. All 16 channels in cakewalk point to the Arranger keyboard.

I then go into the 16 track sequencer of the keyboard to pre select which sounds I want for each midi channel. So when I play channel 1 in cakewalk, it triggers the tone I have selected in channel 1 in the 16 track sequencer on the keyboard, and so forth...

It all works fine until I leave the 16 track sequencer and re open it.. (even after saving it as a new song or performance) it never remembers the tones I had pre selected and reverts them all back to the natural piano sound.

I am basically trying to create a 16 track Studio set on the keyboard without having to do all the program and bank changes in the midi file in Cakewalk to trigger the voices...

It works on the MODX, but doesn't work on the BK9, G70

Diki is the most experienced when it comes to the G70 & BK9 so may be worth sending him a pm. (With all the span on the site at the moment he may have missed your post)

Roland sequencer, are you saving your created sequence in the user section (Just like you would save a newly created style in the user section) before saving the sequence in a song or performance, as if not that is most likely your problem. (A song or performance normally just takes what already exists and modifies that (If you have not saved the sequence the song or performance will not be able to find it).

MODX is a pro keyboard designed to work in studios and with DAWs, whereas an Arranger Keyboard is designed as an all in one, and thus most have limited Midi capabilities, so you may not be able to do it anyway (Most home hobby players don’t delve into Bandlab and the like).

The best way to do what you want is to always use Bandlab as the controller (You only have to put in the MSB, LSB & Program Change) and use the connected units as an expander.

Bill

You might try to take a look at your MIDI Set in the BK9, make sure that the Parts are set to Song, not Style, etc..

It’s also a strange system to use the 16 track sequencer to create a template, when entering the correct PC/32/00 codes in the Bandlab (copy the data) pretty much guarantees the setup data should get saved in the Bandlab save.

But yeah, I kind of get where you’re coming from if you want to use the Song MFX and EQ’s without wading through the sysex of setting those up externally.

What MIGHT work is to save a Song (SMF) to a Performance with the sounds, effects etc. set up (use Makeup Tools for detail editing), and use Bandlab to send ONLY note and controller data. What might be giving you issues at the moment is Bandlab sending some sort of setup initial code that changes the Part settings set by the Song.

Check any output filters on Bandlab, try to restrict the track output to just notes and basic controllers (sustain, volume, expression, things like that, not MSB LSB etc.) and hopefully you won’t trigger a change in the settings. You could also try creating a MIDI Set that filters the reception of things like clock, sysex etc. (though it doesn’t do a per CC# filter, so it tough to let the stuff in you need and keep other CC’s out).

Another thing to try is a program like MIDIOX (I think that’s what it is called) that provides a byte level look at a MIDI stream so you can check exactly what Bandlab is outputting.

Give all that a try and get back to me. Gigging pretty heavy (5 nights a week last few weeks) at the moment, so be patient for a reply!

Any progress, Nick?

Hey Diki, I tried what you said but looks like it doesn't want to play ball... (I did the same with the G70 and BK9)

- I have created a new song
- Selected all the voicing for each track
- Recorded BLANK data into each track (I pressed record. and then didn't enter any notes). A bar appears on each track.
- I saved it as a song and then called it up in a performance.
- Went into make up tools but all the tracks revert to nothing again... so it appears unless there is actual midi data in a track there will be nothing actually stored...

I have also gone and played with all the midi settings, tried a bunch of combinations and settings, all give the same result...

My take is that these keyboards are just not setup for 16 track studio sets in a way that a Synth is... (I am not sure if Korg PA arrangers can do it, but even my PSR SX900 doesnt do it either)...

Seems that the only way I can make it work is to call up the bank and patch numbers directly from the DAW to call up the patch on the keyboard.

I must confess, I tend to use four Parts set to the Keyboard setting rather than go with the Song Parts. That way, you still get the EQ and MFX settings (although you only get 2 MFX to play with) and they don’t get reset.

But one of the things I tend to do when working with a DAW is to quickly turn each MIDI Parts into audio as soon as I’m happy with them. The big advantage here is that you can now apply high quality compression, EQ and effects via plug-ins rather than use the somewhat limited synth effects available.

It’s pretty old school to want to do the whole production using the arranger’s sounds, as many VSTi’s seriously outperform the arranger’s sounds. I tend do do a scratch track using a style and capture that using the on board MIDI Recorder, save as an SMF and then open in the DAW. If the Midi Set is set to Style Parts, the effects etc will work on playback from the DAW.

But usually, from this point onwards I am only working with the MIDI data and sending it to better drum VSTi’s, piano VSTi’s etc.. If anything from the arranger really floats my boat as is, I just solo the Part and record to audio (possibly taking off the effects if I want control over that later in the mix process).

Perhaps it’s worth looking into that rather than limiting yourself to only the Roland’s sounds? Even a fairly budget drum VSTi like EZ Drummer will give you far superior results to the Roland’s kits. Ditto organs, pianos, guitars, strings, horns, you name it.

The arranger makes a really good fast way to get a decent scratch track to start building on, but little of it usually works for first call quality sounds if you want a pro quality demo. It might seem a little more convoluted, but the end results will be easily apparent, IMHO…