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#505587 - 05/08/22 01:19 PM Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions
sunny152 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 206
Loc: ap
Friends,

Although the sound quality between Tyros5 and Genos is very improved but features are not improved. I have noted 20 problems and I hope Yamaha will improve the features of Genos keyboard in the upcoming model for the success.

1) OVERALL SOUND : Sound is warm but not Bright. Brighter sound needed like Tyros5.

2) KEYBOARD LENGTH IS NOT CONVENIENT : 61 Note keyboard is preferred.

3) NO INDIAN VOICES & NO INDIAN DRUM KIT : All indian voices available in Yamaha MONTAGE & MODX keyboards and Indian Drum kit to be included in Genos replacement keyboard.

4) NO SEAMLESS SOUND SWITCHING (CUTTING OF VOICES ) : Voices are cutting off when Registrations are changed, Seamless Sound Switching (SSS) is highly needed like Montage keyboard.

5) ORGAN & CHOIR SECTION TO BE IMPROVED : Hauptwerk Pipe Organ Voices and Wurlitzer Electro Static Reed Organ and Farfisa,COMBO Organ voices needed.

6) REGISTRATIONS SAVING PROBLEM :

(A) During live performance, When Registrations are saved from one bank to another, pop up message asking to save or not, this is not convenient during live performance. Registrations need to be saved immediately like earlier PSR-740 keyboard without any pop up message. Two options needed for saving Registrations 1) Direct Registrations saving one bank to another without pop up message 2) Registrations saving with pop up message.

(B) Last used Registrations voices to resume automatically, when the keyboard is turned off and on.

(C) Registrations buttons to be increased to 16 . Assignable buttons also to work like Registrations buttons.

7) MICROPHONE SECTION :

(A) Dual Microphone inputs needed.

(B) Master Reverb,Chorus effects to be applied for Microphone sound when Microphone output is routed through Sub Outputs.

(C) Feedback destroyer function needed.

(D) Vocal Harmony button to be always off on default.

8) ASSIGNABLE FOOT PEDAL FUNCTION : Foot pedal to control Song Volume and DEMO volume.

9) STYLE (ACCOMPANIMENT) VOLUME :

(A) Sub-Woofer Output : A new Separate sub woofer output needed for Accompaniment(Style) voice.

(B) Accompaniment (style) volume need to be controlled with pedal also.

(C) Accompaniment (Style) output to be assigned to sub outputs without any missing of Master Reverb and Chorus effects.


10) STYLE (Accompaniment ) Volume changes MIDI Message :
Accompaniment (Style) should generate MIDI messages, so that Accompaniment (Style) volume can be controlled by using external MIDI volume pedal.

11) AFTER TOUCH EFFECT WITH PEDAL : After Touch effect to be applied via Pedals,since some players don't like to shake the key or applying pressure on keyboard.

12) INDIVIDUAL UPPER OCTAVE BUTTONS :
Individual upper octave buttons needed for R1,R2 and R3.

13) NEW TRILL TONE/ TREMOLO EFFECT BUTTON AND LAST NOTE HOLD BUTTON : New Trill button needed for adding Trill tone effect to Dulcimer, Mandolin,Santoor, Banjo, Rabab etc voices and a new "Hold Button " needed to hold last played note like left hold button.

14) MULTIPADS : Multipads buttons (1-4) to be off when pressing on each button again.

15) REGISTRATIONS & FREEZE BUTTON : Registration button &Freeze button to hold Master Equalizer and Compressor settings.

16) TEMPO SPEED CONTROL ON DISPLAY :
Style tempo speed control to be controlled on Display with digital slider with touch response.

17) AUDIO RECORDING :

(A) Extra separate track recording for Microphone needed.

(B) Separate manual volume slider to control Line In (Audio In) volume.

18) WI-FI SHARING OF AUDIO RECORDINGS :
Audio songs recorded to be shared through Mobile phone through Wi-Fi.

19) PDF FILES DISPLAY :
PDF song sheets to be displayed on the Display.

20) 8 PIN MINI DIN CONNECTOR PROBLEM : 8 Pin Mini Din Connector pins are getting damaged, replace 8 Pin Mini Din Connector with normal instrument cables for external speaker system.


Sunny.


Edited by sunny152 (05/08/22 01:42 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo

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#505588 - 05/08/22 04:28 PM Re: Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions [Re: sunny152]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 650
Loc: Russia
That's a lot of reasonable suggestions; clearly, you use Genos live a lot;

it's true, multi pads are hard to stop; also, they are hard to start with right timing... really should be improved (I don't have Genos, but I have PSR-SX900)

You probably know that there is V2.1 update, now you can assign the Tempo as default to the Data Dial in the Home Display.

Again, a lot of good points. I fear, though, that Yamaha will continue to focus more on the "fun" part or the "selling" part, rather than on the professional angle.

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#505589 - 05/09/22 10:16 AM Re: Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions [Re: sunny152]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13573
Loc: NW Florida
That’s a lot of expensive ideas to add to an already incredibly expensive keyboard!

Or were you hoping that all that would be added for free? 😂
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#505590 - 05/09/22 12:19 PM Re: Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions [Re: Diki]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 650
Loc: Russia
Originally Posted By Diki
That’s a lot of expensive ideas to add to an already incredibly expensive keyboard!

Or were you hoping that all that would be added for free? 😂


Well, I think that MSRP $6,799.00 should cover making changes to the code, adding extra buttons and connections. I'm not really sure that the price depends that much on the product itself, I think it's more about what Yamaha wants us to pay and our readiness to pay it.

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#505591 - 05/09/22 06:59 PM Re: Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions [Re: sunny152]
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Apologies in advance for hijacking but I feel this is still on topic as per the original post.

I totally agree on some of the points in Sunny's list, especially the first one regarding the sound...

Overall the sound on the Yamaha arranger keyboards (Tyros, Genos, PSR) lack a certain richness and depth... by itself you get used to the overall sound and you think it sounds amazing, which in a way - it is!.. but then when you switch to a roland or korg (or even an old technics KN series) you immediately realise the lack of "punch" and clarity in the Yamaha sound in comparison.

Basses become shallow and muddy, Pads lack that low end warmth which is also reflected on the EPs, drums still sounding plastic and lightweight and not as “tight” and crisp as they should be. (I hate how with every new yamaha keyboard they add a few nice new kits but leave the legacy ones un touched Instead of re doing / re sampling them. The T8 and T9 kits which are basically imitations of the Roland TR808 and TR909 are a joke (but they sound much better in the Motif / MONTAGE/ MODX line for some reason??). Thankfully though, we have the ability load sample drum kits to come to the rescue (which is still extremely tedious).

If anyone feels confused and disagrees with what I am saying - go and use a Montage, MODX, Motif ES/XS/XF and you will hear the sonic difference in sound quality IMMEDIATELY... there is simply something that Yamaha is not telling us about their arranger keyboard line in terms of how they are "stripping" or "Thinning" out the sound quality for whatever unknown reason. And no, it is NOT a matter of changing EQ and compression in the Genos to match, it simply lacks the power.

I loath for the day that Yamaha releases an arranger keyboard that actually puts out the same level of clarity and quality as their synth line. because currently it is not happening no matter what they are trying to have us believe.

Here's is my list I have had since the release of the Genos/PSR SX900 of suggested potential improvements and features that would really help fix some current frustrations and limitations:

1) FAVOURITES: When you allocate a new "favourite" voice or style - as soon as it works you automatically get reset to page 1 of that category... very annoying why cant it just keep you on the current page you were on?

2) STEP EDITOR (Style and Midi Song): We should be able to do a "select all" instead of having to do "Multi Select" and keep pressing (or hold) the arrow buttons to scroll down and select more than one event in the event list.

3) STEP EDITOR (style and Midi Song): We should be able to do a granular "select all" where we can select all of a certain note only for example: I want to select every note that is above the C0 range or only all C0 notes to make edits to them such as volume or velocity... currently you need to manually press each one individually as you scroll down the list of events

4) Drum Edit: any of the drum track channels in a Midi song should be fully editable down to each individual sample being played in the drum track (individual note volume, velocity, reverb, re voicing etc) (without manually scrolling and doing it through the step editor)... Roland has had this in their style and song "make up tools" for about 20+ years? Korg has something similar in the Realtime drum mixer menu as well...

5) Another missing feature: Octave shift of the bass note being played when Accomp is on but the style is off (and editability of the bass note - re voicing?) - also being able to leave the bass note on auto hold as well as the pad voice being played that is following your chord progression while the style is off...

There are more that are relevant only to the PSR SX900 such as the missing custom drum kit creation section (which is in the Genos / but stripped away from the PSR??)

Overall the Genos has "work station" functionality but when compared to the level of workstation functionality with other branded boards it doesn't go anywhere as deep... the above tweaks would definitely help...


Cheers.
Nick
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / MODX / Roland G70 / Roland BK9

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#505592 - 05/09/22 07:01 PM Re: Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions [Re: sunny152]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2379
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Yamaha is slowly moving back to the $20,000 home organ market of the 70's LOL!
While those suggestions have some merit I doubt if there are enough other users with the same requests. Most don't delve that deep. A software update is a possibility but a new hardware design with the limited sales of a 6k instrument doesn't seem likely.
Work with what you have and maybe you'll get more comfortable as you learn. Good Luck.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#505593 - 05/10/22 07:24 AM Re: Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions [Re: sunny152]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5198
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Arranger keyboards have always been made for the Hone Hobby Player so the chances of them fitting features that are needed for live play is pretty small. (The last thing you want is to override a sound without warning etc.)
Some of the features you mention (Like registration cut off etc.) have been standard on other keyboards since the 80s & 90s, so can’t see why they could not add them.
As for the keyboard size, then ever since the Tyros came out most SZ members (And many other potential owners) wouldn’t buy one because they didn’t have 76 keys, so they probably won’t go back anytime soon. (Not enough demand to produce 2 models (Like they did with T5) as arranger sales are sliding down at an ever accelerating pace and will soon become niche like the home organs they came from)
The glory days of arranger keyboards are over, so make the best of what you have got as there may not even be a newer model in the future. (Although I think the market could take one more)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#505594 - 05/10/22 09:28 AM Re: Genos Problems and replacement Suggestions [Re: sunny152]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13573
Loc: NW Florida
Extra outputs don’t just need an extra jack on the back. They also need a whole extra D/A converter, not to mention a crossover (and no doubt certain people will moan if that crossover doesn’t have a variable crossover point and slope!). And, thing is, most subs have high pass outputs already. Send the full range outputs to the sub and on to the top speakers, problem solved.

Dual microphone inputs… What percentage of arranger players even sing, let alone sing in a duo? Once again double the A/D’s, double the effects (you don’t want two singers sharing the same compressor!) double the input jacks and preamps, double the control sliders or knobs.

What percentage of arranger players use Indian sounds? Most that do already use Korg. Not to mention, there’s a damn good sampler in a Genos. Plenty of memory for all those Indian sounds you want. If there’s a legitimate gripe, it would be that Yamaha haven’t exactly gone overboard providing ethnic content for it, but then again, if the demand was there, you’d think that some third party vendor would have stepped up and created a set (like they have for Korg)…

I’m still trying to figure out why you don’t need a warning dialog when trying to do a save. Who on earth spends time saving registrations live on the gig? Haven’t you already prepared your registrations in advance? I’d say the risk of accidentally overwriting something important warrants the dialog box far more than the incredibly rare situation of wanting to save something while playing live.

And, personally, only people that can’t play piano parts are satisfied by a 61. You can hardly blame Yamaha catering to the vast majority of keyboard players, especially as they achieved it at 4 lbs less than the 61 note Tyros 4! The weight of 76’s used to be the main gripe. My 45 lbs G70 was definitely a beast to lug around! Anything under 30lbs is a doddle!

I admit, sounds cutting off is something Yamaha should have addressed decades ago, but it seems hard baked into the sound engine the arranger line has used for a long time. I wouldn’t be surprised if that changed in the near future, things are progressing faster on Yamaha’s side than any other manufacturer has managed (the effects section is years ahead of Korg now).

But, bottom line, I’d say your only realistic option if you feel that the Montage/MODX line has better, richer sounds is to buy one, and USB MIDI the two together. Use the best of each…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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