Advantages vs arrangers,...
Pros,Cons..

Thoughts ?

Modx is a synth for creative individuals so no easy play backings. (You have to put the work in but you can become an individual that people can recognise)
An arranger is an easy play keyboard where you can press a button and everything is done for you. (You pretty much end up sounding the same as every other arranger player, which means that while people recognise the keyboard the player gets little recognition (Although if you sing it can help)

Bill

Bill

Bill that is a great assessment that many arranger players don't recognize playing only styles. Yes an arranger kb style play etc,is the easy way out to make music vs the creativeness and originality of using a sequencer and patterns etc..
I'd love to hear the experiences from people that have owned and played both units .. I also never hear whole songs beginning to end on something like the Modx

There is great backings...
And lots of freedom..

It works different then a style..
But yet the same.
There is no intros and endings..
But you can create them..

So what you do is layer arpeggio’s..
For example you can layer a base, a drum, 2 guitars and some percussion, on your left hand... inside a scene..
There are 8 scenes.. a scene can be intro or ending or variation.
The scene can als switch your normal keyboard sounds..

There are 10.000 arps in the modx.. and room for 8 x 256 user aprs.( which is a limiting factor if you plan to translate style tracks from yamahs styles into arps

Whats also different is the genres of the arps.. they are more modern on average..

But if you want the modx to operate like an arranger then you can with a lot of work..


With upgrade 2.0 there also is a modern sequencer inside, which woks kind of like ableton live,.. its called a pattern sequencer... its a bit like ableton live..

Another limitation towards the psr keyboards
- only 16 part multitimbral
- 4 of those parts have no dsp


To make it work like an arranger is lots of hard work..
But it can be done...

The easiest way to make the modx work like an arranger however is add an arranger module.

Bachus all good information....my question is not to make it like an arranger but to point out the differences in creating songs instead of playing live repetitive style play using both keyboards. I still lean towards an arranger but with many changes in the parts for my needs. Why are we always addicted to Styles when there are so many other ways to create music.?

For creating songs, yamaha advises a daw with both genos and modx...

The sequencers in both instruments altough very different in nature are mostly meant as backing tools..

If you want to have true creative power, choose a daw. The modx is better suited as a daw controller then psr keyboards

I never mix the two ....
my DAW and controller KB is one thing arranger another..
no need to mix the two

Does the Modx6 have "chord following" arps like the Motif XS? Sorry, I don't know the proper name for them. But I'm pretty sure the Motif had some implementation of "chord intelligence" (although it isn't clearly documented in the manual.)

Also, isn't the Modx6 well downscale from the Motif, Montage, etc.? Can it do ANYTHING that the Motif XS cannot do?

Apologize for all the questions. I'm new to the synth world, trying to learn if something like this would be of any use to my playing style. Thanks!

"I never mix the two ....
my DAW and controller KB is one thing arranger another..
no need to mix the two"




Maybe you will find this fact soon

The best possible combination is a good arranger keyboard as a controller for your DAW.. To not "mix them" is foolish

Use the arranger as a faster way to get a jump start on any project..

Eliminate the "workstation" mentality , You can do "so much more" in "so many ways"....

You can use the VST's in the DAW, add your loops etc, but put down the bulk of the work via the arranger.. (don't forget to use a good arranger)

That depends on your setup and gear location etc..
No thanx I'll use a separate controller KB. Then if you gig itsa nightmare to unhook it all..

What a drag, disconnecting a USB cable... total nightmare

The real point, why even use a controller, especially if it is a limited notes on/off midi transfer.

And a more elaborate controller, needs attention to set up, and still can't match the work flow of an arranger as the controller.

You need to think about what you are saying

I have thought about it and it works perfectly for me..
my launchkey MKIII 25 is the perfect controller for my needs with my Daw.

Donny, if the time comes that all I need is 25 keys.... I know it is time to just play the radio.

Fran you just don't get it
I don't think a piano will fit in my desk drawer.. Just sayin'

Ok so I watched the video. Thank goodness there are time markers for various content! I guess the next step is to download the manual(s).

What I would really like to see though, is a song cover. I heard the "Tears for Fears" riff at the very beginning of the video. But I would like to see the mechanics, fingering, etc., of a more traditional melody with some type of harmonic accompaniment. Not necessarily a "style" as we know them from our arrangers, but something-- arps, guitar strumming, chord pad, bassline, etc. The simpler, the better. Hey mister, can you play Silent Night? ;-)

Then get rid of the desk drawer

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/OC-2CPgNOPY[/video]

I remember this being posted a while back. By combining styles with arpeggios, your canvas seems to expand. Although this is the Montage...I would think the Modx would be capable of this as well.

Donny is out shopping

You mean IN shopping. He needs a mouse in his hand at all times.

No on the road again shopping

Didn't buy anything today at the store (mask on of course)....
Did look at a used Yamaha S series unit on the floor,....
But did finally play a Montage and Modx6...

What were your impressions?

Only had time to play a short while... Keybed feel excellent... Sound was amazing... Arps.. Patterns very kool to get inspired too, well built too. I needed more time too dig in..
Just got a taste and I liked what I heard. And that is where it ended for me as it was easy to play parts, patterns, and little parts here and there but getting it to be fluid and do an entire song with take some time...I just wanna pick a style sit and play.. .... For me I would say an arranger is the best all in one keyboard. These so called synths left me wondering why I needed it and too much work to create a full song vs a good Yamaha arranger kb like the SX900/SX700/Genos etc,. Do I buy another SX unit now or do I wait to see what is coming down the pike? What are your thoughts and why?

It was really sad to walk into the keyboard department and see nO MOTL or TOTL arranger keyboards besides the always present low line casio unit...everything else was either old keyboards used, and the Monatge,modx, and a few digital pianos from who knows what year.
no wonder arrangers are a rare thing.

Do you have a keyboard at all now? If not, it's ok to buy an SX now provided you can sell it later (without taking too much of a loss) if something else becomes available.

I am skeptical that arrangers will change drastically in the near future. If you look at Yamaha, for example, what differentiates the SX line from say the PSR 2000 from years ago? A couple of knobs, a chord sequencer, and yes a touch screen but little else. They have been reselling the same basic technology for years (Korg too). Genos is just a glorified Tyros with a touch screen. BTW, Yamaha HAD to add a touch screen because their main competitor Korg had it and even the old people that buy their products have them in their phones.

Roland has already gotten out of the TOTL market and is now selling one model that caters to all markets but mostly the overseas buyers. I am not convinced that Korg will not go the same way. They are late releasing the PA5X (or whatever they will call it). Some are blaming that on the coronavirus and they may be right or Korg may be revamping their line to look like Roland. I could be wrong though.

Ketron has the launchpad which is a true innovation. But each person has to decide if it will truly help what they do and there is a learning curve. Korg's innovation was Karma and I would dare say that fewer than 10 percent of the people at Synthzone use it. If you want to do the type of thing that Karma does, you will be more attracted to a workstation anyway.

I am staying put until something really new comes along (or my 900 dies), but I don't think that will happen.

W Tracy Parnell
thanx for your thoughts of many I can agree with for sure...
all good points....and at this stage of the game am I making myself happy or just won't let go of the old mindset of making others happy playing keyboard. Do you really need the automated style driven easy way or with so much time on your hands go the workstation route and take your time creating for yourself.... or just use a good digital keyboard piano, etc, and sit and play for your own enjoyment.

Donny, I've mentioned before (and now I'm actually joining you in the quest) - it's time to reinvent yourself, professionally. You are not doing anywhere NEAR the same thing you used to do, so you do not need the same tools. That's why none of them make you happy. You're buying tools for a trade that you no longer work in. You don't like piano, so scratch that option. You don't need any features in particular, because there is no end goal for the creation. My advice is to re think the whole deal. Maybe take up photography for a while, and then after a bit - make home movies, and add your old recordings to them for your grandkids. Create an audio/video legacy! You've been given a gift by being able to retire while you're still fit enough to enjoy your time ... so GO ENJOY! You can afford to pamper yourself a little. Find a new hobby, and if a new "something" happens to catch your eye one day - address it then, but don't LOOK for something you don't want, don't NEED, and won't keep. It makes no sense to hold on to things that will not return. (Take it from a 3x divorcee) You have a great family, a comfortable income for life, and you should be exploring new things to do with your time everyday. Hanging out here, talking shop with others that all have different needs is just making you more, and more frustrated as you are reminded of your "Glory Days" .... maybe your true Glory Days have not yet begun? Many people start a new path at our age ... look ahead, my friend, and leave this crazy, gypsy life behind.
You did it.
It's over.
Move on.
Sayin' all this with love and respect for a life well lived. Go find happiness somewhere other than in a plastic keyboard. There's so much to see and do - I'm seriously jealous. Wish I had the opportunity you have right now. Maybe with a little distance, you'll find some clarity of purpose, and you can act on it then. What ever you do - good luck.

Now, GO OUTSIDE!!!!!!!

Well Said

I am outside all over all the time ...
your misconception that I am on the pc at home
is totally incorrect, it might seem like that...
it's called a cell phone and I use it everywhere I go
and can go online easily but you know that.
Thank you for your thoughts but I have other plans which
I will never discuss on a public forum.
and good luck in your new home and area to live
you'll do great there for sure.
Ok so much for wearing my heart on my shoulders here..
time to back off..

bye

Just trying to help. I see you searching, and searching ... thought a friend's advice would make it easier. We all wear our hearts on our sleeves at some point. That's not a sign of weakness .... it's a sign of humanity. Hang in there, pal.

Eek a lot of action in just 4 hours!
Arrangers are 85% software. There's NO REASON that development should have ceased circa 2000, although IMO it pretty much did. Probably because by that time, hardware and software had evolved to the point that it covered 90% of the "use cases" for the target market. Arrangers use the played notes to trigger and transpose a stored musical pattern. After watching the Montage video and the one Donny added the other day, my conclusion is that arrangers can already do MOST of these things.

One easy improvement arranger manufacturers should incorporate, is the ability to specify "arranger hold" or "sync stop" FOR EACH STYLE TRACK, instead of for the style as a whole. That jumped out at me right away. Some of this functionality is possible by using two or more arrangers MIDI'd together, but that gets expensive and awkward.

Arranger KBs could also add note transposition algorithms geared specifically toward arpeggios. Functions like "chord sort," the ability to specify the octave range of a pattern, etc. Yamaha already has at least two different algorithms which are built into the Montage, MOx, Motifs, etc. The exact details of how the intelligent chord following works are not fully described in any of the manuals, and I dug all the way back to the Motif ES! It's possible that the algorithms are the same as the ones used by Yamaha's arrangers for their style parts, or for arpeggiated multipads. The next time I'm in a music store (and who knows when that will be!) I intend to experiment with this, especially the chord fingering.

IMO it would be easier to add chord-following arps, per-track triggering, velocity-based control, etc., to an arranger, than it would be to add simplified chord recognition and full-on style control to a synth. So with the next firmware update you could have a "Genos Prime" that would do almost everything. IMO there are a few reasons this convergence hasn't happened, and probably never will. First: arrangers are profitable cash cows. Companies are making huge profits peddling fully-developed 20-year-old software in a shiny new case to a generally older and economically established clientele. They are priced high because the market will bear it! Most of us have been willing to pony up for the next new model with few changes. So there's no financial incentive for the companies to incorporate this new functionality. Second: the product families appeal to different target audiences. "Old fogey" arranger players probably aren't asking for arps or this kind of fine control. Many would perceive this kind of customization as "too much work." A lot of young people make music on their computer, so I'm not really sure who the target market is for top-end workstations. Regardless, I doubt they are asking for more schlager beats (at least in the U.S.!) Third: internal corporate structure. Among all brands, arrangers and workstations are developed by different divisions. There may be jealousy, rivalry, fenced budgets, etc., that prevent data sharing, or just a lack of communication and understanding of each other's products.

When Tracy posted the Montage thread a couple weeks ago, that was a real eye-opener for me. I heard about the Motif's "one finger play" and chord-following arps years ago, but the details weren't readily available, and it just seemed like a lot more work to get to the same place. Now I'm not so sure... And as far as integrating this functionality into arrangers, that integration might be as simple as a MIDI cable and a rack unit. Definintely an area I intend to explore in the future!!