They have so many more ways to create music...
amazing what can be done as shown..

I've seen the looping thing done by a few guitarists here. Is entertaining to watch them build the song but then repetive and boring. The fad seems to have faded.
As for new players using Arrangers ? I just think its a lack of exposure and not being able to shake the stigma of the toy like arranger keyboards of the past.
When I play no one knows what I'm doing to get all the music out nor do they care. Its the final product and it seems to work pretty well for me. I do enjoy working with my sax player as it adds a bit of realism to the sound as people can relate to a sax better than an Arranger.
Finally , you just never see Arrangers in stores much. Too expensive to stock them so again , limited exposure.

I agree Bill....too many choices in gear and too many types of
audience music interests in today's world to satisfy all.
You have too fall back on a really generalized repertoire
playlist to try to get thru the gig.

The thing is that some people study very carefully what makes a video on YouTube popular; usually there should be some “wow effect” with decent overall quality. Aside from making impressions I don’t see how working with loops can be a lasting occupation. And we know that the same “wow” effect can’t work twice. These videos are shared as a conversation piece; the more views they get, the more YouTube offers them to watch and it keeps working as a circle.

None of songs that I play can be played with this method. Okay, maybe a few.

Clearly, musicians in these videos are very serious about music in their lives; not sure if we can judge by them a younger generation altogether.

I think, an arranger will “always” be a small and contemporary version of a home piano. Certainly, you can just buy a digital piano, which are popular as well; but I believe that some extra capabilities and smaller size are very tempting for a lot of people; and then it’s all about financial capabilities of a buyer; for someone it’s PSR-E463, for someone it’s Genos.

Also, any younger generation eventually becomes an older one. Not that they should come to an arranger afterwards; but, well, I’m watching now a black-and-white movie with Cary Grant, made in 1952, and I have recently watched a dozed films like this; so with no feeling of nostalgia (the films are totally new to me) I can say that in many aspects they seem to be superior to modern ones.

Listening to some hip-hop with friends now, a youngster can end up listening to Beatles or Sinatra in 20-30-40-50-… years; or to some renewed versions of these songs; and if this youngster is also a musician, he would want an arranger to play them.

There are a lot of old (30+) Russian songs in my repertoire which I learnt just because I liked to play them. My parents never listened to them when I was growing up, so it has nothing to do with memories or nostalgia. What I’m trying to say, I guess, is that it’s hard to predict the future, what will or won’t be popular, or how many more arrangers are there to be released.

Its not the arranger mechanic...

Its the content that chases them away..

Makes me wonder why yamaha only keeps adding 20th century music styles..

If they created a workstation with arranger capability where young people could create their own styles from audio loops and midi files.. it would sell big big big time....

Those HARD BUTTONS that say STYLE names should be eliminated from ALL ARRANGERS...JUST GO SOFTWARE ONLY...

Personally I want tons of BALLAD, ROCK, POP, & COUNTRY....AND NEW MUSIC...I don't want all that other stuff..Add in modern music..

Let me pick MY OWN MUSIC in the software...

..I don't WALTZ & I don't BOSSA NOVA, & I am 58...I don't JAZZ. why is it on my keyboard...Give me flexibility, give me choices

Add in modern music...You can LOOP & ARRANGE

I would add a dedicated drum machine too...

Whatever rumor about KORG is I am hoping they are along this line of thinking...

Rant over, love my ARRANGER & those buttons I will never use...

but that would split their profit margin...when they have two camps to make money with now.. way put it all together is their way of thinking $$$

Nothing to do with the keyboard or tech, it’s all down to the musician/entertainer, if they are good at their craft it doesn’t matter what they play. (Some musicians/entertainers don’t need anything but themselves)
Just do and use whatever works.

Bill

I sometimes have younger people come up to see what I'm doing. That watch me play and still have no idea. I tell them it's a new intelligent computer technology that follows the chords and notes that I play. That seems to make sense to them.
The ones that remember the old "toy" arrangers are old people like me. Do they still even make them?

I presume that most people I know do not actually know what a "chord" really means. They think of music as a melody and some additional noise that can be added as you wish. No judging - it's our nature to know something and to be ignorant about something else. And it doesn't stop these people from feeling and appreciating music. My point is that with an arranger or not there always will be misunderstanding. Even when I played an acoustic piano some people thought that I used some backing. But in your case you're safe because of your singing abilities. I think in Russia you would get an extra cash and attention for being "a real American"; though not sure if moving here would be a good idea (oops, I've already put it in you head... forgive me, please!).

Maybe if I were a little younger...it would be worth the trip just to hang out with you my friend!

Sadly I think they’re just not interested. My last 2 old keyboards went to my granddaughter. Never really showed any interest. Should have learnt that lesson from the first one, and given the pa 800 to someone who’d use it.

She’s taking guitar lessons now, and the younger brother is learning to play sax.

Yes! I put the PSR-E series, Roland EX, and Korg EK in this category. Casiotone too of course. I would tell a parent to rob a 7-Eleven on the way to the music store, if necessary to afford MOTL or better, before I would endorse them to buy one of these toys for their kids. Especially with excellent arrangers like the BK-5, Pa500, etc. available at very reasonable prices used.

What I grew up with was extremely limited, and it limits me even today. I'm adamant that the functionality of the instrument should NEVER be a limit to a child learning, exploring, and being inspired.

The younger generation has been turning away from what the older generation loves, enjoys, and plays since the beginning. It rarely has to do with what is better.

That is how we went from Sinatra type of music to rap, and oldies. Somewhere in there is progress. I remember when not knowing what a computer was, or only using a wired phone.
I won’t talk about the trolley car I used to ride in. (smile)
John C.

You absolutely nail it. I have been saying for a long time that a workstation with arranger features ( which really cost nothing as it is just the addition of software features ) is the way to go. Maybe they may require a button overlay when in arranger mode to show what buttons actually do when in that mode.

A Korg Kronos, Roland Fantom or Yamaha Motif with arranger capability would be awesome.

Thing is, the Workstation and Arranger departments are separate, and are very protective of the work they do, plus if they merged (Shared a lot of tech and programming) then restructuring (Redundancy’s) would follow, so it won’t happen anytime soon.

Bill

You hit the nail on the head..

Most modern dance musicians have no clue about chords
All they talk i about beats..
This results in more trbal level of dance music..

Atleast playing arranger or piano would get them educated..

There is even software they use to create chord progression to accompany their beats and mellodies... hmm.. software that arranges? Really is that new? Or have we seen that before

STEVE you can make your own styles if you are creative enough . sequencer and looper are basicly the same basic idea 'you can add voices in the loop technic which is uniq in the looper ,byt thats is.

Definately...

But you cant work with audio material..
And the young ones mostly use audio instead of midi..

I think there is a lot of possibilities to modernise the sequencer..
I mean the sequencer of the arrangers..

It used to be just ableton live.
But now even logic took the step towards clip launching..
Thats when you want to use the sequencer as a modern live tool in dance music..

I'm sure I could, but where to start? I bought the board SO I WOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT...

I am the kind of guy who PAYS FOR HIRED HELP....I drive my car, but am not a mechanic....I AM NOT A PROGRAMMER...

Donny,

So, are you getting a looper instead of an arranger then?

Nope not me, ....just showing Steve alternatives in
creating songs with today's gear such as the looper.
I have come to the conclusion for my needs it will
always be an arranger with vocals.

A looper is a great option and I hope the include them in arranger keyboards. But I do feel a looper such as the one in the video is good for songs that have only a few chords and no bridges or chorus. There's plenty of modern songs fit that structure though.

You know I just watched that and said "so what" Same thing could be done with a simple Style, maybe not exact bass line but close I'm sure. As I said there is a guy here with a two neck bass/guitar who does that and its entertaining to watch but not for long.
And what happens when you go to the Bridge, Intro, Ending ? No flexibility.
Whatever happened to multitrack recorders?
Am I missing something ???

I do what my generation did with music. The next generation will do what they will do with music. What they do doesn't, and won't, concern me. I've had a lifetime of fun out of it, and I hope they'll achieve the same.

On looping and such, in the words of Shania Twain, "That Don't Impress Me Much."

Bill I am in total agreement with you..

With the same type of effort, using the arranger style composer you can duplicate this and easily add variation for verses, bridge etc.

Even if you want a sparse drums and bass line style.


Nothing annoys me more than a 1-4 measure loop.. the folks think are so great.. To make a song worth using you would have to arrange multiple loops together.

This is why workstations are called workstations.. The pattern based sequencer is the heart of the high end workstations.. in conjunction with an arpeggio feature.. (yuk, yuk, yuk).

Bill your BK9 would outshine everything in that video.

The problem is that you have to first get the younger generation to buy an arranger keyboard which isn't going to happen and there lies the problem otherwise you could talk to your blue in the face..

A few years ago, our town was featuring live music on the lawn outside Town Hall during the 'lunch' hours ... One day there were two young guys, one on a scaled down drum set, the other on guitar and vocals, using a looper ... It was interesting at first watching him create the bass line, background chords, some fills, etc. but after a couple of songs I lost interest and it seemed his drummer did also, waiting for the track to be completed ... it was most annoying when he would make a mistake and have to do the part over ...