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#488281 - 02/02/20 06:45 AM South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Transsexual youngsters, whose transsexualism has been diagnosed by specialists, have to get hormone blockers to prevent irreversible body changes that lead to a very high suicide risk. For example, if it is clear that someone‘s brain sex is irrevocably female and there is suffering about a male body, by all means a voice break has to be avoided before it‘s too late. (This does NOT include surgery.) This follows clear medical guidelines proven by decades of experience and research on transsexualism.
South Dakota now introduces a bill that criminalizes doctors who do their job and treat these minors. A bill that is in direct opposition to the physicians Hippocratic Oath to apply best-possible treatment to help patients.
I am sure transsexual minors from South Dakota are now entitled to get asylum in Germany.
I don‘t feel like laughing AT ALL about this horrible and disgusting development.

https://time.com/5773630/south-dakota-bi...vMLIIAV9_Bs7xSY


Edited by Crossover (02/02/20 10:41 AM)

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#488341 - 02/03/20 09:56 AM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: Crossover]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
It always surprises me that "do gooders" always consider what THEY want, instead of what is best and what's wanted by, in this case, the young transgender kids. This attitude is counter to ALL serious, valid research on the subject.

I guess it matters little to the legislator(s) that the quality of life issues are MASSIVE.

Again, living proof that you really don't have to take your clothes off to show your ASS!

Thanks for calling this serious issue out, Rachael.

Russ

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#488353 - 02/03/20 10:48 AM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: Crossover]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I agree. These issues have been buried far too long. Sadly, we still live in time when one or two guys decide what is good for everybody else. It takes a looooonnnng time for true democracy to work so I'm afraid it's going to take awhile to change hearts, minds, and attitudes. Seems the leadership is only accepting of science when it suits their agenda.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#488402 - 02/03/20 09:51 PM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: cgiles]
tassiespirit Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 554
Loc: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Honestly I do not understand how a minor knows what they want or do not want. But I do believe in saving lives but not at all costs. There has been a case where a male child pressured his mother into changing his sex to a female ( because he did believe he was a female); but once he/ she went through puberty he realised that he really was a boy!
Problem was, it was too late for all his abilities of fathering in the future were already removed, and the mother lost the chance to have grand children too. The mother had fort tooth and nail for her son/ daughter to be what the child thought they were.
In the end they are all unhappy and realised they should have waited.

There are other studies that show that there are just as many suicides with trangender people who don't get the operation for themselves as to those who do do the operation. So it is not the operation that is the issue but the persons thinking or mindset of themselves that needs to be addressed.


Allan


Edited by tassiespirit (02/03/20 09:51 PM)
_________________________
The problem is not the problem...The problem is your attitude to the problem.

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#488408 - 02/04/20 04:54 AM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: tassiespirit]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Originally Posted By tassiespirit
Honestly I do not understand how a minor knows what they want or do not want. But I do believe in saving lives but not at all costs. There has been a case where a male child pressured his mother into changing his sex to a female ( because he did believe he was a female); but once he/ she went through puberty he realised that he really was a boy!
Problem was, it was too late for all his abilities of fathering in the future were already removed, and the mother lost the chance to have grand children too. The mother had fort tooth and nail for her son/ daughter to be what the child thought they were.
In the end they are all unhappy and realised they should have waited.

There are other studies that show that there are just as many suicides with trangender people who don't get the operation for themselves as to those who do do the operation. So it is not the operation that is the issue but the persons thinking or mindset of themselves that needs to be addressed.


Allan


These are the usual misconceptions and simplifications found in the general hearsay and unprecise media contributions about the subject, so I‘m not surprised you are influenced by them, too.
The study you mention - I assume you are thinking of a Swedish study that found that the suicide rate of post-surgery adult transsexuals is still much higher than that of the general population. That study is often used to claim that surgery is useless. It‘s a false conclusion: Of course the suicide rate is still much higher because 1) the surgery cannot wipe out the visible effects testosterone had on the body especially during puberty (exactly what hormone blockers would avoid!) 2) hostility of society towards transsexuals causes severe depression. So the surgery an alleviate the problem, but transsexuals still have more depressions than the general population.
In fact, if the vast majority of patients didn‘t have alleviated depression after the genital surgery, psychiatrists wouldn‘t recommend them in their reports, and health insurances wouldn‘t pay them - but they do based on decades of medical experiences.
Secondly, as I said, the issue about minors is NOT yet genital surgery, but hormone blockers. Here, the main risk is that these blockers are partly reversible but not necessarily completely in a case of wrongly diagnosed transsexualism, the maximum disaster would be infertility. BUT: IF the psychiatrist has thorougly dealt with the kid, a wrong diagnosis is highly unlikely - the few cases mentioned don‘t prove anything - and the MUCH HIGHER RISK of not prescribing hormone blockers is that the brain-female youngster will go through hell experiencing her own totally irreversible voice break and skeleton growth - a horror that easily leads to suicide.
Prof. Milton Diamond of the University of Hawai‘i has dealt with studies on sexual topics since the 1970s. His study on transsexual twins revealed that 30% of identical twins of who one was transsexual were both transsexual, whereas 0% of fraternal twins of who one was transsexual were both transsexual - a very clear indication that there is a strong genetic component to transsexualism (identical twins share the same DNA).
Neurobiologists say that transsexualism is likely to be biologically rooted in the hypothalamus, probably due to specific hormonal influences of the fetus during pregnancy.

When you say the mindset of transsexual people has to be addressed, this comes down to conversion therapy. This is about to be legally banned in Germany, as it has been declared unethical and without scientific basis by specialists worldwide. Psychiatrist tried to eliminate transsexualism by psychotherapy for decades - to no avail, as it is fixed in the brain.
The WHO had just issued ICD11, the newest version of the catalogue of diseases, in which transsexualism is no longer found in the section of mental disorders, but in the section of sexual health.

What you can‘t do is pick isolated cases of wrong diagnosis and regrettal and take it as a justifcation to ban a treatment vital to the vast majority of cases, that way you will avoid 1% (if at all) of regrettals and ruin the lives of 99% for the sake of ideology.


Edited by Crossover (02/04/20 05:24 AM)

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#489451 - 02/16/20 05:13 PM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: Crossover]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596

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#489511 - 02/17/20 02:30 PM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: Crossover]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Good, well reasoned professional analysis. Preachers and others who propose psychological gender reassignment scare the hell out of me.

Thanks, kid!

Russ

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#489664 - 02/19/20 03:06 PM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: Crossover]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Kid? Not sure what that means (I‘m 51), maybe slang, but anyway, it‘s certainly nice to see someone really listening attentively to what experts say even if the topic causes an emotional reflex of strong irritation.

This is something I have been observing particularly since Trump was elected and nationalist parties are on the rise in many countries:
While it is a good thing to be skeptical about everything and to think for oneself instead of being gullible, this is now stretched so far that laymen usually give a shit on anything studied experts are saying, and everyone thinks he is an expert on these subjects, whether it is climate change or rare variants of sexual development. Again, we know who the role model for such a stance is...

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#489667 - 02/19/20 03:59 PM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: Crossover]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
"Kid" is an expression of endearment. Hey, kid, I'm 75, so you could easily really be my kid, from an age standpoint.

No questions asked, I'd adopt you in a second.

Then, yo7u'd have an old daddy to support (LOL)!

Be well, kid!

Papa Russ

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#489674 - 02/19/20 04:48 PM Re: South Dakota‘s trans youth get asylum in Germany [Re: Crossover]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Hey, don't blame our president. He's way too busy pardoning his criminal buddies to be concerned about real-world problems smile.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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