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#484876 - 12/22/19 02:12 PM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Dnj]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I don't have a Genos, never had. The main reason I am exploring the SX900,besides the better speakers and effects, is the ability to play MP3&G for vocals not played.


Edited by Bernie9 (12/22/19 02:22 PM)
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#484877 - 12/22/19 02:35 PM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Bernie9]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bernie9
I don't have a Genos, never had. The main reason I am exploring the SX900,besides the better speakers and effects, is the ability to play MP3&G for vocals not played.


Good move Bernie and Goodluck...

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#484878 - 12/22/19 02:46 PM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Dnj]
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By Dnj
Bernie doesn't have a Genos Henni?


Sincere apologies then & deleted my unjustified comment - I honestly thought he already had the best of everything that's currently available.

Yes Bernie, the SX900 would make for a nice upgrade then and should you wish later, Groovyband Live! will still work with it. I'd recommend that they create a specific version that would recognize all the voices from the SX900 & Genos including the Revo drums. Then update all on-board styles to suit. (I think they most prob. are working on something similar already as they have already included all the extra effects from these units even though my S770 can't play it))
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#484880 - 12/22/19 02:55 PM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Henni no problem..
Merry Christmas to you and your family

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#484891 - 12/22/19 06:05 PM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Henni]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Originally Posted By Henni


Hi Rikki,

No ordinary Yamaha styles will play. As I stated, they've TOTALLY replaced Yamaha's style engine with software. The style file is 10 times smaller and only calls the different subroutines controlling the style used at the time. The output is handled like midi but portrayed like a ordinary style. This is how they've achieved i.e. many more effects, 4 lead voices each harmonizeble individually to a different harmony type simultaneously, 8 variations, 8 fills, 8 OTS's, 2 breaks, round robin drums like on the Genos, humanized played lead notes (similar to round robin drums but applied to what you play with the lead voices) that includes i.e. decent guitar strumming, style immediate reset, half bar fills, extremely advanced editing capability, intelligent transpose splitpoint that follows where you play your chords and lowers/raises the splitpoint accordingly - to name but a few of the improvements over the standard older Yamaha's.

And because it's software driven, the sky is the limit to whatever they choose to ad to it in future WITHOUT you having to change your arranger. And there is the user memory on the arranger itself for any newer voices that might be required as an later upgrade (I will not be surprised should they pursue this route in future). Heck, I've already added voices from the GHENOS pack to it & I'm only a novice...

Henni


Hi Henni,
appreciate your input. Think I’m getting a much clearer understanding of what the software does.

If I was someone who just used the onboard styles as they are, it sounds perfect.
Changing sounds , changing effects , is great, but not being able to alter just say a bass line, or a piano track, ie the midi part of a style , doesn’t work for me.

Plus I couldn’t find the free play styles in the list? Maybe I just missed seeing them.

What I’ve actually done is set up my p121 as controller for my sx. I mainly use piano for r/h voice.
I have sx to the side of my p121, ( ie L shape, I can’t play them stacked) fortunately with my setup I can see the sx screen and I can press some of the buttons, but I use the registrations and the pedal to get me thru the variations and fills for a particular song.

I would have been happy to just use my sx as a sound module for Groovyband , but if I’m having to use sx for some of the styles and the software for others, I might as well just stick to the sx.

Appreciate your time.
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#484910 - 12/22/19 10:39 PM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: rikkisbears]
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
i THINK THIS WILL CLARIFY THINGS MORE:



GROOVYBAND LIVE! IS ANOTHER MODULE LIKE A SD40

YOUR TABLET TAKES THE FULL PLACE OF THE MODULE

THE YAMAHA OUTPUTS DRIVE THE AMPS

IF YOU CAN USE A MODULE LIVE, YOU CAN USE GROOVYBAND LIVE!
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#484928 - 12/23/19 04:10 AM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Dnj]
DAN.2000 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 1134
Loc: FRANCE
Note, that you can also transform your PSR into a bigger one with vArranger, with 5 instruments layers for right hand, and 3 for left hand.
You can directly load your PSR styles in vArranger, and play with the OTS too
You can import the list of instruments of your PSR and have access to all of them from vArranger
The Yamaha DSP FX are well played, but a new version will let you to edit them easily too.
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Regards,

Dan
https://www.varranger.com

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#484929 - 12/23/19 04:26 AM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Dnj]
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
Fantastic!!! Dan. Tx for updating us on this. These are the kind of things to be made known.
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#484932 - 12/23/19 05:05 AM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: Dnj]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Dan, being the gentleman that he is, has tried to stay out of a shooting match, but a fuller picture is necessary to make an informed decision.
Thanks Dan

Bernie
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#484934 - 12/23/19 05:31 AM Re: vArranger VS Groovyband Differences? [Re: rikkisbears]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By rikkisbears

Changing sounds , changing effects , is great, but not being able to alter just say a bass line, or a piano track, ie the midi part of a style , doesn’t work for me.



rikkisbears,

not sure what you mean with "being able to alter .. the midi part of a style".

Actually you CAN alter the midi part of a style. Let me explain, maybe it is just what you are looking for.

In the mixer, below the volume fader you have two buttons: one with the name of the track (i.e.: "BS" = bass), you use it to select the corresponding mixer strip, another one with a letter (A÷D) that tells you what pattern (within those preprogrammed within the style, for that part, is currently assigned to that part AND that Main section).

If you push that button, you cycle through all the patterns A->B->C->D ---> back to A and so on. While cycling through the patterns the style engine in REAL TIME and SEAMLESSLY will play the selected pattern. Like a real player that improvises on the fly different riffs while the whole band still pushes hard the groove! You can change the pattern as often as you want: the style engine will keep changing the riff naturally and seamlessly as the continuous change was preprogrammed into the style.

Now think about it: for each of the 8 MAINS you have 8 parts (drum, percussion, bass, chord1, chord2, pad, phrase1, phrase2) whose pattern can be independently varied in any possible combination.
Just pressing a single button with the style running and seamlessly playing the result.
When you find something you like (you have 4^8 = 65536 possible combinations to try !!) you leave that variation as it is. Move to another variation (let's say MAIN2) and repeat the process. You can customise the midi part of all the 8 MAINS.

Additionally for each section (Intro, Ending, Main, Fill, Break), and for each part within a given section, you can customise any parameter, for example:

1) Part enable (= if the part should play or not)
2) Volume, pan, sends to var, chorus, reverb, dry level
3) The voice and/or any voice edit parameter (i.e.: filter cutoff, eq, octave shift, detune, ADSR, ....)
4) The DSP algorithm and/or any parameter (i.e.: you could increase the guitar stomp box overdrive). Or even if the DSP should be applied or not.

All the editings are done by turning knobs on the main Mixer screen or Voice/DSP edit screen with the style running and real time feedback from your speakers.


Now think about it: because the fun starts here. You have customised the patterns for a couple of MAINS that in the preset style were not just right for your specific song. They are now much better. You have 8 MAINS to match each section of the song (chorus, verse, intermezzo, .....).
You want to improve them even more. You notice that the guitar track has a nice Amp Simulator applied throughout the style sections. Yes it's nice, but a little boring having it from the beginning to the end of the song.

You go to (let's say) MAIN2 and apply a different Guitar Effect to just that section. You then go to MAIN3 and increase the drive and cabinet type just for that section. You go to MAIN6 and you also change the Guitar Voice to a completely different one. The new voice has by default associated a suitable effect (which is probably different from any of those already in your style). Let's say you want to keep the effect you earlier applied to MAIN2. You go back to MAIN2, copy it (one button push), return to MAIN6 and re-apply it here (another single button push). Done!
Now your guitar part is nicely varied throughout the style, it always changes. Not only the midi pattern, but also the actual guitar and/or the effects applied to it!

In Intro2 there is a nice Brass riff. I want it more memorable! Go to that section, change the DSP to Ensemble Detune (just for that section), adjust the effect to taste (even sourcing from customisable preprogrammed presets), then increase the send to the global VAR bus, that has a killer Ping-pong delay. Step up a little bit the volume, and tweak the pan. Now that brass riff really shines! I could edit it in just 10 seconds!! And all the tweaks just apply to that section. The same brass part in all the other sections stays unaffected.

If I want to change a parameter globally (for all the Sections) I can do that. Do I want to revert a parameter from the local customisation to the global setting? One click: done! NO!! It was better before! Another click: done!

Did I say that the sequencer NEVER stopped and you always were hearing in real time what were going on?

Now multiply this for every part and for any of the parameters you can change and now you discover the REAL power of our software.

It is easier to be done than said!

You will end up with a style that could resemble the original one as little as you wish (listen to Henni's customisation) and as close as you wish to what you have in your head and the song calls for.

Registrations are supported, but given the availability of 8 Mains, 8 OTS and all the customisations I showed you, most of the time you absolutely do not need to touch them!! KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid!

--------------------

Compare all this with your typical Yamaha's workflow and start crying!

Not only most of this is simply not possible. But even when something is possible, the procedure is so convoluted, with no effective visual and audio feedback, and with so much monkey button pushing, that you give up. And anyway your creative moment has already vanished long before you reached the end!




Edited by groovyband.live (12/23/19 05:32 AM)
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