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#481417 - 11/21/19 07:57 PM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
Nice job Dave. Harmonies came on strong. Got me in the Christmas spirit and reminded me that I need to start working on them! Thx for sharing!
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Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#481418 - 11/21/19 08:53 PM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: zuki]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By zuki
Nice job Dave. Harmonies came on strong. Thx for sharing!


Thanks Jim. I'm sure this piece is going to be a valuable asset to my arsenal. Yamaha learned a lot from making the Genos 2 years ago, and used some of that cool technology to make a smaller, more portable pice for those of us that will never want the big brother, due to size, and slilent slabbiness. I coined that term ... slabiness. Good word, right?
smile
If the PA1000 was a better baby 4x, I'd still have mine, but since it fell short .... this little Baby G is the ticket.
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#481421 - 11/22/19 12:39 AM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Dave, I listened to your recording, the first thing that came was – this guy is a pro. I have always felt you did a good job, but this recording is outstanding. Your voice has a young quality, wish I had it. (smile)

I like how you kept the voice the man thing. The band was there, but it did not get in the way.

I played professionally for many, many years; first with guitar, then with keyboard. My voice was responsible for most of my success. Having that background, I have to say it’s the same for you and more.

Great voice great recording, nice, John C.

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#481425 - 11/22/19 02:40 AM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: bruno123]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Originally Posted By bruno123
Your voice has a young quality, wish I had it. (smile)


See Dave, John agrees.

John , I told Dave he had the voice of a 30 year old.
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Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#481427 - 11/22/19 05:07 AM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Plus one to all the positive comments made, nice work. I think John C said it best “this guy is a pro.”

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#481432 - 11/22/19 05:49 AM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15563
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Mega-dittos.

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#481433 - 11/22/19 05:52 AM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
saxxman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 1433
Loc: Niceville, FL USA
Maxi-dittos!
rocker
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Randy

PA4X, SX900 (Baby Genos), Roland U-20, L1 Compact, Way 2 Many Saxes

"My computer beats me routinely at chess - but it's NO MATCH for me at kick boxing!"

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#481478 - 11/22/19 01:05 PM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Thanks again for all the kind words. I'm humbled that so many of you like it. I received a PM from another member who brought up a great point for debate. His concern was this ... and I'll quote him:

[quote] "The problem with the vocal harmony, is that when you have not engaged the harmonies and your voice is IN BALANCE with all the rest of the instruments, the moment you activate the harmony function it becomes either a tad too loud or (if you take slightly more distance from the mike) your harmonies do not come thru properly.....).So far I have not come up with a good solution myself either, so if you find one make sure to let me know" [end quote]

I responded:

Harmonies can be approached from two viewpoints.
1) a vocal group, like Manhattan Transfer or 2) simple backgrounds to enhance a lead vocal, as needed for effect

*My approach is usually the first. I like to think of my "group" as all lead singers who blend together, like the strings of a guitar to form one, complex tonality.
No ONE voice is featured, rather, the entire group is an ensemble performing in harmony. It's a different concept from "background" harmony. My vision is more "up front" than background. There's much truth to your concern about volume, and in a perfect, environment, I'd remix this whole thing to have a different flavor. Some TC processors (like my VL-3) allow you to lower the lead when the harmony is engaged. to keep levels more consistent. In a more serious setting, like a studio recording, I'd be more mindful of my balance, but I'd do it with mic technique, and breath control. I'd use very little compression (if any), and I'd try to feature the harmonies as I'd imagine them coming from the MIlls Bros, or the Carpenters. That's the sound I'm after. I don't just want a generic 3rd above on the chorus, unless the song calls for that. Backing off the mic to lower the lead signal will also lower the strength of the harmonies, so you need to allow for that when setting up your vocal presets. Nothing is set in stone, and all the rules go out the window during a performance. Your ears are the main tools to use, and every song, in every room, at every show will be different. The important thing is to "listen" to yourself. Don Mason, and I record almost every show .... just to keep us honest. It's a great way to bring yourself back to reality after the adrenaline from performing a show wears off.

I thought his point about the harmonies pumping up the volume was a valid point for discussion, and ....... GO!
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#481486 - 11/22/19 01:44 PM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Well, in my initial 'critique' without any analysis, I stated that I thought the harmonies were too loud ...
Having heard some of your previous work, I know that when you do a 'Manhattan Transfer' type of vocal i.e. "A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square", all the harmony voices are 'up-front, as they should be and very well balanced ...

As for recording a performance, I have done that from time to time, and certainly see the value to it ... however, if recording direct from a KB out, or from a speaker out, that does not represent what the audience in the room is hearing. I would like to know what recording method you use to record a live performance, Dave ...
Thank you.
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t. cool

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#481491 - 11/22/19 02:32 PM Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox [Re: Uncle Dave]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
I thought I'd do a quick explanation of how I had to "dumb down" my vocals to suit the VH2.
1st - it scoops very poorly, compared to other units, so I tried to stay in the grid for note chages.
2nd - it lacks dynamic range, (probably too much compression,) so I used less in my approach.
3rd - it doesn't punch in, and out as cleanly as my TC unity, so I engaged the harmony before the note was sung. This helps make it more believable.
I've said many times, using a harmonizer is an entirely different skill set for lead singing. You need to think like an ensemble, use less vibrato, vary the melody less, and in general ... do less. When you add 2 or three voices to your own, it can sound cluttered if you're not careful. There's also the added volume that the extra voices contribute, so you need to back off a bit to make a proper blend.

I'm going to tame this beast. It'll never be my go-to vocal unit, but no one will ever know I'm working so hard, IF I do my homework, and learn the workarounds.
Thanks again to all who listened.



Hi UD,

Can you kindly write a comparison for VH quality of your Korg’s TC and Digitech Vocalist VR. I remember you posted a song with Digitech and it sounded better / more natural than Yamaha or TC.

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