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#470452 - 05/27/19 08:10 AM Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file?
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 257
Loc: United States
I know nothing about Midi files because I don't use other people's ideas. I have never downloaded any into the keyboard. I do complete original arrangements on the KN7000 and have a digital recorder with a built-in CD burner. Can't I burn the arrangements to CD and then put the CD in the computer and file it as a WAV? Since Midi files are a form of recorded music, will this work? The reason I want to make my arrangements Midi files is because I want to use Musescore to write the full arrangements. The only way you can use the program for writing full arrangements is that they must be a Midi file.

Mark

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#470453 - 05/27/19 08:26 AM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1555
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Melodyne computer programme is one way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Zkznqs-f8
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Roger M

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#470466 - 05/27/19 12:11 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 257
Loc: United States
Thanks, Rog. Will do.

Mark

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#470467 - 05/27/19 12:21 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 257
Loc: United States
Rog,

I just checked YouTube and I never saw so many thumbs down on this program. Apparently it doesn't work. Some called the guy doing the video a scam artist. I have to ask, have you used this program?

Mark

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#470476 - 05/27/19 05:40 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2297
Loc: North Yorkshire
Hi Mark, It's just not possible to use any computer program to convert something as complex as - for example a WAV or MP3 Audio file, to a MIDI file. Trying to extract all the individual parts of a recording - say drums, bass, strings, brass, woodwind etc. and assign each instrument to a separate MIDI file tracks is just a dream!
Don't waste your time.....

Remember, MIDI files - unlike WAV and MP3 files, do not actually contain any musical 'Sounds' - they are merely a set of digital instructions which need to be fed to a software program on a PC such as Windows Media Player, or a device like a keyboard capable of interpreting the instructions and producing Audio from a built-in set of Digital Sound Samples.

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#470477 - 05/27/19 06:18 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9129
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
You can do your arrangement on the kn7000, and while playing the arrangement record to a audio recorder (wav).. then you can burn a cd that will play in any device..
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#470478 - 05/27/19 07:15 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: Fran Carango]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4116
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
I have recorded many midi sequences on the Kn7000. Then play them back using the audio output to a wave or mp3 recorder. Many are in my iPad today.
Keep enjoying your Kn7000, John C.

PS, Fran we're on the same page again.

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#470489 - 05/28/19 08:59 AM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1555
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
No Mark - just spotted it in Google... Sounds bad news to me also.
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Roger M

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#470498 - 05/28/19 01:53 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4116
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
I know nothing about Midi files because I don't use other people's ideas. I have never downloaded any into the keyboard. I do complete original arrangements on the KN7000 and have a digital recorder with a built-in CD burner. ---- Mark

As Bill N. said, Midi itself does not have any audio sound. They are like on and off switches. When your keyboard converts the digital information, you then have audio nusic.

Since Midi files are a form of recorded music, will this work? No, because they are not a form of audio music. If you were to listen to a digital sound, it would sound like static.

The reason I want to make my arrangements Midi files is because I want to use Musescore to write the full arrangements.--MARK

The only way you can use A program for writing full arrangements is to use a program that supports midi and not auio. Midi file.

Save your midi file as a midi files, and then load it into a program that supports midi. I used CakeWalk for may years, I do not know the Musescore program.

I hope this helps, I can remember my confusion when I first worked with nidi. I had to buy Working with midi for Dummies (smile)
John C.

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#470510 - 05/28/19 04:47 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: Bill Norrie]
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 257
Loc: United States
Bill and John--THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I figured you guys would have an answer. Very disappointing that it can't be done. It seemed impossible for me from the beginning. I wondered just how all these instruments could be separated in a score and printed.

Roger, it is to the point of hilarious on YouTube with the responses of the program and the guy promoting it. They have said some pretty brutal things about the guy. Also, on another program that is supposed to work and doesn't, the same thing. Guys calling each other, using the "F" word to one another, standing by that the program doesn't work. The world is full of mean short fused musicians.

Thanks, again guys.

Mark

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#470512 - 05/28/19 05:14 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
designserve Offline
Member

Registered: 08/21/14
Posts: 163
Loc: Wales, UK
Mark,

You can convert your KN7000 sequences to midi files using the functions built-in to KN7000 (if that is what you want to do), with some provisos and with some learning (from the manual, websites, old issues of Technote magazine):

1 - If you don't use the automated features (drum patterns, accompaniments etc), the sequences will convert to midi quite well.
2 - If you do use the automated features they can also be converted to full sequences but it is more complicated (yet more learning).
3 - If you play those midi files back using the KN7000 they will work best. Trying to play them on other keyboards or on PC will work but will need some additional editing in Musecore or preferably a dedicated midi editor, because Musecore is harder to use for that sort of detailed midi file editing.

Another option for converting KN7000 sequences to midi is to plug in the KN7000 to a midi interface connected to your PC. You would play back the sequence on your KN7000 and record the midi signals on your PC (in Musecore or preferably a midi editor). This can give you excellent results that will play back accurately with minimal editing. Again there's a lot to learn to become familiar with the midi settings on the KN7000 and with the midi programmes.

Musecore is not ideal for midi editing or recording. For that, you really should use a DAW programme such as Reaper, Cakewalk (that Bruno mentioned), Logic, Protools... or something similar.

Musecore is fine for writing arrangements and outputting midi files that can be loaded in your KN7000 with ease. It's just not great for easily recording or editing midi files (in my opinion).

The easiest and most reliable way to achieve what (I think) you want is to:

A - Write your arrangements in Musecore.
B - Save as a midi file.
C - Load the file into your KN7000 to play it back (it takes just seconds to load and play midis, you should definitely try it).
D - Make any adjustments you think are needed in Musecore and re-save as a midi file.
E - Load the new midi file in KN7000 to play it back.

Repeat D and E until you're satisfied with the results. Then you can save it as a KN7000 sequence on your SD Card. You would also be able to send the midi file to people with other brands of keyboards and it will sound fairly close to what you have written on their instruments.

You can of course record as audio using your usual methods at any point.

Another example - If you have a midi interface, you can record one part at a time into Musecore from your KN7000, just the same as if you recorded into the KN7000's sequencer one part at a time. You can then play back from Muescore via the midi interface to your KN7000 (ie using the KN7000's sounds). You could even play back from Musecore and record the playback using your KN7000's sequencer.

The topic is potentially huge, so to give any more information than that will need a full tutorial to be written, and for you to answer many detailed questions about what you want to achieve. I think we are all potentially slightly misunderstanding what you would like to do. That's because there are many things you CAN do and many ways to achieve them!

I'd be willing to write such a tutorial (or a series of tutorials) later in the summer, once my websites are completed (I'm redeveloping them at the moment).

Best wishes,
Mike
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Currently playing: KN7000 KN6500 KN5000 KN3000 KN2000 KN1000 KN901 KN800 P50 WSA1 AX7 EX30

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#470514 - 05/28/19 05:34 PM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
designserve Offline
Member

Registered: 08/21/14
Posts: 163
Loc: Wales, UK
As a follow-up guys...

Melodyne is a notoriously bad programme but many high-end DAW programmes can convert audio to midi. Most of them are fairly expensive. My son is a music producer and he does this regularly using Protools and Logic.

The key is to process one track at a time and not to try to do audio to midi of all tracks at once. However, it's not a quick process it needs a lot of work.

Probably the easiest converter at the moment is Scorecloud. Watch the video on the following page:

https://scorecloud.com/

I haven't used it but I've heard it is good. I'm sure it will need quite a bit of effort though. Maybe worth a try (remember, one track at a time).

if someone tries it, send us all some feedback!

Best wishes,
Mike
_________________________
Help to preserve information about Technics Keyboards.
http://TechnicsKN7000.com
http://KN7000.co.uk
http://TechnicsKeyboards.com
http://wsa1.technicskeyboards.com/
Currently playing: KN7000 KN6500 KN5000 KN3000 KN2000 KN1000 KN901 KN800 P50 WSA1 AX7 EX30

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#470537 - 05/29/19 08:53 AM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 257
Loc: United States
Mike,

Thanks for your posts. My mind went into tilt reading the possibilities. I assumed that the KN7000 would only accept Midi files and not create them. For a better understanding, I want to make it clear that I have done original large arrangements in the KN7000. I was hoping I guess for the impossible to be able to print out all the parts in Musescore of my arrangement in the keyboard. As far as my interest personally in making my arrangements in Midi it is purely what Musescore says is needed to do this. If this can be done, I have had thinking that the print out would not be correct. It seems impossible for a program to figure out violins from horns and piano, etc.

Mark

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#470545 - 05/29/19 10:34 AM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
designserve Offline
Member

Registered: 08/21/14
Posts: 163
Loc: Wales, UK
Mark,

Ok, I understand you.

The first thing you should try is saving a midi file from your KN7000 and opening it in Musecore. That will let you see whether most, or all, of the information you want in your score is transferred. maybe it will be good enough for what you want. If not, then you can look further into how you can prepare your sequences for saving as midi files.

Alternatively, You can use a midi interface:

When you play your KN7000, or when you play back a sequence on your KN7000, it is possible to send what is played, via a midi interface, to your computer. The sequencer in KN7000 is essentially the same as a midi editor on a computer. When you playback, it is concurrently sending midi signals to the midi interface (you have to set that up in the KN7000's midi settings screens).

I always recommend the Roland UM-ONE mk2 midi interface - https://www.roland.com/uk/products/um-one_mk2/

But I heard that the Yamaha midi interface is pretty good too. I haven't used it.

Cheaper ones will give you problems.

Your computer can then record the midi signals coming from KN7000 into Musecore and show them as notes.

So, you would play the violins track on your sequencer and record that. Then you would play the horns track and record it. And so on. Doing one track at a time keeps it simple (but it is also possible to record all the tracks at once). Then, you assemble all your tracks into a music score. You can display the score different ways or print out individual parts.

Personally, I would use Sibelius for this instead of Musecore. Here is a good video about recording midi from a keyboard into Sibelius - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfiI8k_LJE

You don't have to manually play the parts in, like the lady does in the video. You can use the KN7000 sequencer to play the parts you have already recorded.

Here is Sibelius - https://www.avid.com/sibelius-first

Once your tracks are in Musecore or Sibelius or another program (there are many alternatives), you can play them back via the midi interface and hear them on KN7000. Or, you can save them as midi and load them into KN7000. Or email them to friends with other keyboards. Or play them back on your computer, using the midi sounds that are built-in to Windows. etc etc

The programmes understand whether a violin or horn or piano is playing because each instrument is sent on a different midi channel, along with an instruction to tell the computer "I am playing a violin sound" etc. You set it up in the programme and on KN7000 so that they understand all of that.

If your main purpose is to print out the scores, you will find that you have to do some editing to make them perfect after recording. Especially if you haven't quantised your sequences in KN7000.

I'm making this sound simple because I'm trying to be brief. However, whether you load in a midi file or record it via the interface, a complex arrangement will take several hours of editing in Musecore / Sibelius to make it look like a perfect manuscript.

Best wishes,
Mike
_________________________
Help to preserve information about Technics Keyboards.
http://TechnicsKN7000.com
http://KN7000.co.uk
http://TechnicsKeyboards.com
http://wsa1.technicskeyboards.com/
Currently playing: KN7000 KN6500 KN5000 KN3000 KN2000 KN1000 KN901 KN800 P50 WSA1 AX7 EX30

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#470570 - 05/30/19 07:50 AM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 257
Loc: United States
Mike,

Thanks for all the info but thinking about all that would have to be adjusted becomes a total turnoff. I think it would involved too much time and I could probably write out the parts by hand quicker. I and others appreciate your help and thoughts on the forum.

Best,

Mark

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#470575 - 05/30/19 09:23 AM Re: Can a KN7000 arrangement be made into a Midi file? [Re: kitkat]
designserve Offline
Member

Registered: 08/21/14
Posts: 163
Loc: Wales, UK
Mark,

I agree with you.

It would be worth you saving one of them from KN7000 as midi and loading into musecore to see how it looks.

However, I would only go to the extent of all that editing if I wanted to sell the arrangement to someone. I used to do that years ago when the programmes were much more difficult to use. It used to take a day or two of editing, I reckon it would take 2 or 3 hours nowadays.

Best wishes,
Mike
_________________________
Help to preserve information about Technics Keyboards.
http://TechnicsKN7000.com
http://KN7000.co.uk
http://TechnicsKeyboards.com
http://wsa1.technicskeyboards.com/
Currently playing: KN7000 KN6500 KN5000 KN3000 KN2000 KN1000 KN901 KN800 P50 WSA1 AX7 EX30

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