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#470308 - 05/23/19 04:43 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: cgiles]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By cgiles
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
I never met anyone that truly understood how to use the G70 harmonizer.

I think it is the easiest and sensible designed keyboard harmonizer to date..



Fran, don't those two statements contradict each other?

chas



Chas, it sounds like it could... but to further explain, it is easy to use, and the design makes a lot of sense, but the problem is, they don't know how to use it.. It automatically switches to the method you are using without having to select the procedure. But folks are use to doing it the Digitech way, or TC helicon way, or Korg , Yamaha, and Ketron way.. not realizing Roland had a better way.

I just seen on YouTube the Boss VE-8 was considered the best in it's class, followed by 3 TC models and at number 5 was the Boss ve-20.

I guess Roland knows it stuff. grin
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#470312 - 05/23/19 05:28 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Don,
You changed your setup, gone back to Ketron?
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#470314 - 05/23/19 06:23 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: rikkisbears]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
Hi Don,
You changed your setup, gone back to Ketron?


We'll see. I'm working on it. I have Korg PA4X, Roland EA7 and Ketron SD40.
One will go eventually. Two will stay for awhile.
Great to hear from you Rikki!
_________________________
DonM

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#470322 - 05/23/19 09:05 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 805
Loc: North Texas, USA
One thought on your comparison of vocal harmonizers...
In the world of digital electronics, no two events happen at exactly the same time. Korg BATCHES their chord recognition. In other words, there's a slight delay until you get all of the notes down before it recognizes and sounds the chord.

Yamaha, and the MOTL Roland models I've tested all have a bit of a hair trigger. They acknowledge a chord and begin sounding notes as soon as the first key is pressed. Then they use portamento and other effects to bend the notes to the new chord if additional keys are pressed. IMO, Yamaha is the worst offender in this regard. If you aren't super-careful about getting the root down first, it sounds like the bass player swallowed a clam!

If the vocal harmony and/or pitch correction are supposed to be tracking based on the played chord, then Korg will have an inherent advantage, at the price of a very consistent, but slightly less responsive feel to the style player.

Of course I could be tilting at windmills- this may have nothing to do with the widely-held consensus ranking of VH. But personally, I would like to see this "batching" and the window of delay from the time the first key is pressed to the sounding of a chord, as user-adjustable features. I'm aware of the issues with the KN6000 years ago, and I'm not talking about whole beats here. Just something in the range of 25 to 60 milliseconds makes the difference between sounding "arrangerish" and sounding professional. My $.02.


Edited by TedS (05/23/19 10:40 PM)

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#470333 - 05/24/19 05:08 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: DonM]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Originally Posted By DonM
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
Hi Don,
You changed your setup, gone back to Ketron?


We'll see. I'm working on it. I have Korg PA4X, Roland EA7 and Ketron SD40.
One will go eventually. Two will stay for awhile.
Great to hear from you Rikki!


Thanks Don
Good to be back. Got a lot of catching up to do.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#470341 - 05/24/19 06:28 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Bachus]
IMMusic_Curt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/18
Posts: 314
Loc: New Symrna Beach, Fl.
Just spent a few minutes on this and I agree. It doesn't appear to be possible, and as you mentioned, it's pretty simple to edit a voice, save it, and assign to the right hand. What is missing is the ability to edit the style to use a "user" voice vs. the various factory sounds. Although I don't think I have a need (at least I don't think so), disappointed to see that the user banks are not available in this case.
_________________________
Curt
https://immusic.co
MIDI, Music and Keyboard Fun!

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#470345 - 05/24/19 06:55 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: TedS]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By TedS
One thought on your comparison of vocal harmonizers...
In the world of digital electronics, no two events happen at exactly the same time. Korg BATCHES their chord recognition. In other words, there's a slight delay until you get all of the notes down before it recognizes and sounds the chord.

Yamaha, and the MOTL Roland models I've tested all have a bit of a hair trigger. They acknowledge a chord and begin sounding notes as soon as the first key is pressed. Then they use portamento and other effects to bend the notes to the new chord if additional keys are pressed. IMO, Yamaha is the worst offender in this regard. If you aren't super-careful about getting the root down first, it sounds like the bass player swallowed a clam!

If the vocal harmony and/or pitch correction are supposed to be tracking based on the played chord, then Korg will have an inherent advantage, at the price of a very consistent, but slightly less responsive feel to the style player.

Of course I could be tilting at windmills- this may have nothing to do with the widely-held consensus ranking of VH. But personally, I would like to see this "batching" and the window of delay from the time the first key is pressed to the sounding of a chord, as user-adjustable features. I'm aware of the issues with the KN6000 years ago, and I'm not talking about whole beats here. Just something in the range of 25 to 60 milliseconds makes the difference between sounding "arrangerish" and sounding professional. My $.02.


For Yamaha use full fingered chords.. solves this problem... also allows you to play comtra melodies or small riffs with your left hand...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#470346 - 05/24/19 06:59 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: IMMusic_Curt]
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By IMMusic_Curt
Just spent a few minutes on this and I agree. It doesn't appear to be possible, and as you mentioned, it's pretty simple to edit a voice, save it, and assign to the right hand. What is missing is the ability to edit the style to use a "user" voice vs. the various factory sounds. Although I don't think I have a need (at least I don't think so), disappointed to see that the user banks are not available in this case.


All arrangers have draw backs and none does it all. You have to weigh the pluses and minisus and determine what features are necessary for your needs as a player and how much you would use them.
On top of that there are always workarounds to get the desired result. Personally sound shaping isn't high on my needs list but it is hard to beat the LIVE sound of KETRON products.

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