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#470197 - 05/22/19 09:53 AM Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703




headphone


Edited by Dnj (05/22/19 09:56 AM)

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#470202 - 05/22/19 11:26 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
The reason i choose Genos above sd90...
Its a stupid one...

You can not edit the voices in styles on ketron..
Sadly this is an interface thing, as you can edit the voices in the right hand..


A logical mind would have choosen the sd90 to be used with mykronos (back then) and montage (now)

Still think the sd 90 has a lot to offer..
But i am happy where i am, and probably upgrading the modx to a montage 2 next Year..

Currently deeply buried in the fm-x synth..


For the future still have ketron modules under consideratiom
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#470206 - 05/22/19 12:03 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
IMMusic_Curt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/18
Posts: 314
Loc: New Symrna Beach, Fl.
Hmm - Maybe I don't understand what you said, but I'm pretty sure that I can change the voices used in a Ketron style. Can you give an example of what you want to change and we will attempt to re-create here on our SD90. Matter of fact this would make an excellent topic for the "How-To" series we are working on.
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#470207 - 05/22/19 12:06 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: IMMusic_Curt]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Curt I was wondering about that myself...
bachus please explain further.

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#470218 - 05/22/19 09:46 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: IMMusic_Curt]
Bachus Offline
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By IMMusic_Curt
Hmm - Maybe I don't understand what you said, but I'm pretty sure that I can change the voices used in a Ketron style. Can you give an example of what you want to change and we will attempt to re-create here on our SD90. Matter of fact this would make an excellent topic for the "How-To" series we are working on.


Try changing the envelope or the filter cutoff of the base sound in a style..
And then save it..


Edited by Bachus (05/22/19 09:48 PM)
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#470219 - 05/22/19 10:21 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I had a long talk with Larry Read last week. Nice guy, great entertainer. He worked with some big names in the past.
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#470220 - 05/22/19 10:24 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Oddly enough, I HAVE an SD40 and Korg PA800 Pro.
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#470224 - 05/23/19 02:06 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I have an SD40, and the only reason I didn't buy the SD90 is because it was more than I needed. I take my SD40 to many engagements. including my Karaoke show and with my Hammond SK1. Also, as I get older, less weight is more of a factor.

As an aside, I am happy Curt is spending so much time and effort to teach us more about these amazing modules.
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#470227 - 05/23/19 03:47 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Bachus]
IMMusic_Curt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/18
Posts: 314
Loc: New Symrna Beach, Fl.
Ahh, "Change" as in edit a voice used in style. I read your comment as change from Acoustic Bass to Slap bass, etc. Gotta say I've never tried what you described but I will. I'll report back what I learn.
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https://immusic.co
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#470228 - 05/23/19 05:44 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: DonM]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By DonM
Oddly enough, I HAVE an SD40 and Korg PA800 Pro.


Don good luck with your new Ketron SD40/Controller setup
I know it's gonna sound terriffic!! keys

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#470255 - 05/23/19 09:09 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: DonM]
jingleman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
Originally Posted By DonM
Oddly enough, I HAVE an SD40 and Korg PA800 Pro.


Don was so low key with this news it passed me by. Is this an EA7 replacement or a PA4X replacement?


Edited by jingleman (05/23/19 09:09 AM)

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#470263 - 05/23/19 09:40 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: jingleman]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Originally Posted By jingleman
Originally Posted By DonM
Oddly enough, I HAVE an SD40 and Korg PA800 Pro.


Don was so low key with this news it passed me by. Is this an EA7 replacement or a PA4X replacement?

We'll see. I love the Korg but my aging hands and fingers are demanding a lighter keyboard touch. The Roland EA7 has that, but is lacking in some operational features, such as text display and vocal harmony.
So far, so good with the Ketron. Curt and A.J. have helped immensely in the setup operation.
I haven't talked about it for the past couple of weeks because if I didn't like it much, I would just sell it and no use having to go through all the justification that would be necessary.
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#470282 - 05/23/19 01:17 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: DonM]
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Mason needs NO justification!!!
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#470284 - 05/23/19 01:43 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: tony mads usa]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
The SD-40 looks COOL. If I didn't dislike the company and personnel so much, I'd be playing one now.

No need to...I've still got Don's old Midjay!!!!!!


R.

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#470289 - 05/23/19 02:05 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: tony mads usa]
jingleman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
Originally Posted By tony mads usa
Mason needs NO justification!!!

No one needs justification as far as I’m concerned. I live vicariously through all you guys. I wish I had deeper pockets so I could buy one of each. It’s like Christmas every week on this forum. Gotta love it🎅🏻

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#470291 - 05/23/19 02:14 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: jingleman]
jingleman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
Don, how would you compare the vocal harmonizer on the sd40. As good as Korg? Similar to Yamaha?
Thanks in advance,
JM

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#470293 - 05/23/19 02:20 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Not as good as Korg, but better than Yamaha. I have adjusted effects and levels, other than that I just use one voice above mine.
Default had way too much reverb, but easily changed and saved.
I'm quite happy with the vocal sound and vocal harmony.
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DonM

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#470294 - 05/23/19 02:20 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: jingleman]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By jingleman
Don, how would you compare the vocal harmonizer on the sd40. As good as Korg? Similar to Yamaha?
Thanks in advance,
JM


Being I have used all four....
I will list them this way
1- KORG Tc Helicon
2- Ketron
3- Roland G70
4- Yamaha VH2

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#470305 - 05/23/19 03:57 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I never met anyone that truly understood how to use the G70 harmonizer.

I think it is the easiest and sensible designed keyboard harmonizer to date..

I didn't care for the Ketron SD7 harmonizer. It was not easy to get good results.
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#470307 - 05/23/19 04:17 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Fran Carango]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
I never met anyone that truly understood how to use the G70 harmonizer.

I think it is the easiest and sensible designed keyboard harmonizer to date..



Fran, don't those two statements contradict each other?

chas
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#470308 - 05/23/19 04:43 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: cgiles]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By cgiles
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
I never met anyone that truly understood how to use the G70 harmonizer.

I think it is the easiest and sensible designed keyboard harmonizer to date..



Fran, don't those two statements contradict each other?

chas



Chas, it sounds like it could... but to further explain, it is easy to use, and the design makes a lot of sense, but the problem is, they don't know how to use it.. It automatically switches to the method you are using without having to select the procedure. But folks are use to doing it the Digitech way, or TC helicon way, or Korg , Yamaha, and Ketron way.. not realizing Roland had a better way.

I just seen on YouTube the Boss VE-8 was considered the best in it's class, followed by 3 TC models and at number 5 was the Boss ve-20.

I guess Roland knows it stuff. grin
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#470312 - 05/23/19 05:28 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Don,
You changed your setup, gone back to Ketron?
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Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
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#470314 - 05/23/19 06:23 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: rikkisbears]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
Hi Don,
You changed your setup, gone back to Ketron?


We'll see. I'm working on it. I have Korg PA4X, Roland EA7 and Ketron SD40.
One will go eventually. Two will stay for awhile.
Great to hear from you Rikki!
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DonM

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#470322 - 05/23/19 09:05 PM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Dnj]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 805
Loc: North Texas, USA
One thought on your comparison of vocal harmonizers...
In the world of digital electronics, no two events happen at exactly the same time. Korg BATCHES their chord recognition. In other words, there's a slight delay until you get all of the notes down before it recognizes and sounds the chord.

Yamaha, and the MOTL Roland models I've tested all have a bit of a hair trigger. They acknowledge a chord and begin sounding notes as soon as the first key is pressed. Then they use portamento and other effects to bend the notes to the new chord if additional keys are pressed. IMO, Yamaha is the worst offender in this regard. If you aren't super-careful about getting the root down first, it sounds like the bass player swallowed a clam!

If the vocal harmony and/or pitch correction are supposed to be tracking based on the played chord, then Korg will have an inherent advantage, at the price of a very consistent, but slightly less responsive feel to the style player.

Of course I could be tilting at windmills- this may have nothing to do with the widely-held consensus ranking of VH. But personally, I would like to see this "batching" and the window of delay from the time the first key is pressed to the sounding of a chord, as user-adjustable features. I'm aware of the issues with the KN6000 years ago, and I'm not talking about whole beats here. Just something in the range of 25 to 60 milliseconds makes the difference between sounding "arrangerish" and sounding professional. My $.02.


Edited by TedS (05/23/19 10:40 PM)

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#470333 - 05/24/19 05:08 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: DonM]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Originally Posted By DonM
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
Hi Don,
You changed your setup, gone back to Ketron?


We'll see. I'm working on it. I have Korg PA4X, Roland EA7 and Ketron SD40.
One will go eventually. Two will stay for awhile.
Great to hear from you Rikki!


Thanks Don
Good to be back. Got a lot of catching up to do.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#470341 - 05/24/19 06:28 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: Bachus]
IMMusic_Curt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/18
Posts: 314
Loc: New Symrna Beach, Fl.
Just spent a few minutes on this and I agree. It doesn't appear to be possible, and as you mentioned, it's pretty simple to edit a voice, save it, and assign to the right hand. What is missing is the ability to edit the style to use a "user" voice vs. the various factory sounds. Although I don't think I have a need (at least I don't think so), disappointed to see that the user banks are not available in this case.
_________________________
Curt
https://immusic.co
MIDI, Music and Keyboard Fun!

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#470345 - 05/24/19 06:55 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: TedS]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By TedS
One thought on your comparison of vocal harmonizers...
In the world of digital electronics, no two events happen at exactly the same time. Korg BATCHES their chord recognition. In other words, there's a slight delay until you get all of the notes down before it recognizes and sounds the chord.

Yamaha, and the MOTL Roland models I've tested all have a bit of a hair trigger. They acknowledge a chord and begin sounding notes as soon as the first key is pressed. Then they use portamento and other effects to bend the notes to the new chord if additional keys are pressed. IMO, Yamaha is the worst offender in this regard. If you aren't super-careful about getting the root down first, it sounds like the bass player swallowed a clam!

If the vocal harmony and/or pitch correction are supposed to be tracking based on the played chord, then Korg will have an inherent advantage, at the price of a very consistent, but slightly less responsive feel to the style player.

Of course I could be tilting at windmills- this may have nothing to do with the widely-held consensus ranking of VH. But personally, I would like to see this "batching" and the window of delay from the time the first key is pressed to the sounding of a chord, as user-adjustable features. I'm aware of the issues with the KN6000 years ago, and I'm not talking about whole beats here. Just something in the range of 25 to 60 milliseconds makes the difference between sounding "arrangerish" and sounding professional. My $.02.


For Yamaha use full fingered chords.. solves this problem... also allows you to play comtra melodies or small riffs with your left hand...
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#470346 - 05/24/19 06:59 AM Re: Revisiting KETRON Midjay Pro SD40 SD90 for OMB [Re: IMMusic_Curt]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By IMMusic_Curt
Just spent a few minutes on this and I agree. It doesn't appear to be possible, and as you mentioned, it's pretty simple to edit a voice, save it, and assign to the right hand. What is missing is the ability to edit the style to use a "user" voice vs. the various factory sounds. Although I don't think I have a need (at least I don't think so), disappointed to see that the user banks are not available in this case.


All arrangers have draw backs and none does it all. You have to weigh the pluses and minisus and determine what features are necessary for your needs as a player and how much you would use them.
On top of that there are always workarounds to get the desired result. Personally sound shaping isn't high on my needs list but it is hard to beat the LIVE sound of KETRON products.

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