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#469170 - 04/26/19 06:32 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
Riceroni9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1298
Loc: TX, USA
Well said, John C.: (Bruno)

It is "all about personal taste" and the fact that a few of us must compromise because of the "affordability factor."

Whew... I just noticed Mason has finally re-surfaced with a post on this thread. As usual, short and direct but brimming with wit and wisdom. Glad he is okay. Without his presence, "The Zone's General Arranger Forum" is a pretty dull place.

I frequent another couple of "sites" for songwriters and musicians and performers... and it appears that both of them are dying a slow death. Is that because of the smart phone being used more than the personal computer? My best Buddy has made that transition and we seem to be losing touch 'cause he seldom reads his E-mail these days.

Sorry for the temporary change in direction, Chas. Guess I'm just an old man reminiscing and bitching about change! LOL!

---Dave

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#469178 - 04/26/19 07:19 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Paul, I'll upload the file to this site when I get home later this afternoon.

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#469189 - 04/26/19 08:17 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Russia
Yes, John C., speaking about guitars, keyboards imitate them rather well, and in a certain context they may sound even better than original ones, but after a while a guitar proves that it has a whole range of different voices of its own, and as any acoustic instrument it never repeats the same sound twice.

BTW I’m sending this post using my smartphone while I’m riding on a bus.


Edited by Kabinopus (04/26/19 08:20 AM)

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#469195 - 04/26/19 09:18 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By cgiles
Bachus 'new toy' and his primary (musical) reason for purchasing it, got me to wondering; why do we place so much emphasis on the quality of the 'piano' sound when buying (or evaluating) a new keyboard. Most of us are not (primarily) pianist and few of us do arrangements that feature solo piano or piano solos within an arrangement. The fact is, most of the mid and TOTL arrangers AND workstations have piano voices that are more than adequate for most of our mixes. In fact, some of the 'factory' piano voices may even be better suited to the other voices in the mix than some of the very expensive SUPER-DUPER software samples that require powerful computers with loads of memory. The same with the even more expensive dedicated 'stage pianos', although I can see the justification for a stage piano (but only if you're a pianist, NOT just for providing a superior piano voice for your regular arrangements).

I am not a pianist by any stretch of the imagination but I have found that the pianos in my Tyros II, Fantom G7, BK7m, or even my latest toy, the very inexpensive Numa Compact 2x, are more than up to the task if the performance is us to snuff. What's more important to me is the feel of the keybed and in that regard, the Fantom is lightyears ahead of the others. Some people like the new offering for the SEVEN (a free upgrade) but I'm not a huge fan, probably because I don't like that keybed for AP (although it's perfect for 'Rhodes'.

Your thoughts on why the quality of the piano voice is so important to you even though you're not a pianist.

chas


In my case, i am mostly playing piano voices... about 70% of my time behind the keyboards. Half the time its layered with another sound.. but allways prominent ..

Often with a backing of only drums or drums, base, guitar..

Its only logical to me that for the sound you use most, you have the best options available..

And while i really like the piano sounds of the modx8 (CFX and Bösendorfer), like them more then the Kronos piano’s. I prefer the Steinway and the Fazzioli grandpiano sounds (not just the samples, but the real thing to)


But again, as stated in the other topic, are they a need or a want? Could i live witouth them? Offcourse i could.

And yes, i also have a fair collection of software piano’s.. but i am in a phase where i want to keep the macbook as far away as possible from my setup... so this choice seemed only logical to me.. its better to have a few extra sounds you keep on using, instead of a few 100 (yammex/integra) ... for solo piano, the difference between the brands of grands is deffinately there
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#469200 - 04/26/19 10:10 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Bachus, this post was not aimed at you....or Steve, or Russ, or Sam CA, or any of the KNOWN pianists in the group; we KNOW why you guys want a great piano/(s); for the same reason these durn guitar players (sorry Russ, Nigel, Eric, John C.) HAVE TO HAVE 8 gazillion guitars; it's their PRIMARY instrument and they want as many options as possible. Although we welcome your replies, this was mainly aimed at those keyboardist for whom piano is NOT their primary instrument. I believe Fran's answer came closest to the truth; we hold the piano up as the 'gold standard' and assume that the quality of the PIANO voice will probably reflect the quality of the other voices in the instrument. In any case, very interesting responses and another opportunity to peek into the mind of that mysterious creature, the keyboard player (and his sub-species, the arranger player smile ).

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#469201 - 04/26/19 10:28 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By cgiles
Bachus, this post was not aimed at you....or Steve, or Russ, or Sam CA, or any of the KNOWN pianists in the group; we KNOW why you guys want a great piano/(s); for the same reason these durn guitar players (sorry Russ, Nigel, Eric, John C.) HAVE TO HAVE 8 gazillion guitars; it's their PRIMARY instrument and they want as many options as possible. Although we welcome your replies, this was mainly aimed at those keyboardist for whom piano is NOT their primary instrument. I believe Fran's answer came closest to the truth; we hold the piano up as the 'gold standard' and assume that the quality of the PIANO voice will probably reflect the quality of the other voices in the instrument. In any case, very interesting responses and another opportunity to peek into the mind of that mysterious creature, the keyboard player (and his sub-species, the arranger player smile ).

chas


Either your a piano player or a arranger kb player...
No matter how good the piano is in an arranger kb, module or whatever if you play it in a MIX of other instruments like a style, sequence etc...you will most definitely lose the true nuances of the piano. IMO Piano should be play as such, a solo acoustic instrument so the player can express all their talents when doing so which is beautiful when done properly...and the Piano is then showcased as it should be.
But MIX the piano sound with the band, style, etc,....
it's just another sound within the MIX and no one can really hear it's attributes vs a solo piano.

JMO

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#469202 - 04/26/19 11:29 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: Dnj]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Russia
Originally Posted By Dnj
[IMO Piano should be play as such, a solo acoustic instrument so the player can express all their talents when doing so which is beautiful when done properly...and the Piano is then showcased as it should be.


Well, I’m not sure that mixing piano with other instruments is something controversial. As I understand, even Chopin did that:



Edited by Kabinopus (04/26/19 11:36 AM)

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#469203 - 04/26/19 11:37 AM Re: Why piano? [Re: Kabinopus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
It doesn't matter about Chopin or anyone else, if it's not played SOLO the listeners ear will not appreciate the little nuances which get masked by anything else in the mix. Yes it sounds ok to a point but to the affectianato it's obscured from it's pureness.



headphone


Edited by Dnj (04/26/19 11:41 AM)

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#469205 - 04/26/19 12:00 PM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Russia
As a matter of fact, I have an idea that piano is a kind of instrument that can be easily overused. Like other instruments, piano has its own beautiful voice. But unlike other instruments, it is much more advanced in terms of its range and ease of playing. As a result, it provokes to compose and perform types of music which, let’s say, are hard to get.

I was able to really appreciate the piano only when I came across records of Richard Clayderman. We can say that it’s “poppy”, but I believe that if music touches you emotionally, then the job is done.

Also, as one producer I know says, if you want your mix to sound cool when it’s done, then take a really good care of an each sound in the first place. If initial materials are weak, nothing will make it to sound strong on the output.

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#469208 - 04/26/19 01:42 PM Re: Why piano? [Re: cgiles]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
"affectianato" I didn't run across any of them in the places I performed. Ferrante & Teicher, Libberache, Cole Porter, etc... were not residents or customers in the places where I played. wink

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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