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#467925 - 03/28/19 06:32 AM Why Arranger Keyboards Matter....
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703


Edited by Dnj (03/28/19 07:12 AM)

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#467927 - 03/28/19 07:13 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
sparky589 Offline
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Registered: 11/12/11
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Loc: NJ
Glad so see some positive press...sad to see article from 10/2017 and has no comments on its page..
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#467930 - 03/28/19 07:29 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: sparky589]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Maybe Technics saw it coming and got out and read into the future of arranger KB's? Big changes are here to create, ....and we are still here.. but,once we're gone which is not to far off what will be will be. Enjoy arranger kbs as we know them while they're here, something else will fill it's shoes as always. Nothing lasts for ever. I will always be a fan of Arranger KB's.

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#467935 - 03/28/19 08:14 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Online   happy
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Donny, keep in mind that today's younger generation is tomorrow's older generation. For that reason alone, arranger keyboards will still be here long after we have passed. smile

Gary cool
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#467938 - 03/28/19 08:55 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Technics was bought out by a giant corporation. Arranger sales were insignificant compared to their other electronics lines, and not worth the trouble.
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#467939 - 03/28/19 09:36 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
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Only reason a company dissolves a department is because it's not profitable I would think?

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#467942 - 03/28/19 11:21 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Riceroni9 Offline
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Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1298
Loc: TX, USA
Not always true, Donny:

Our division was the most profitable of our Fortune 500 parent. They acquired us as part of another acquisition and just could not figure out how to manage us. Our contribution to their bottom line was practically insignificant. (We did not need management but sold, we were!) Sad day for me because folks at the top always get the axe when a competitor takes over. One of life's great lessons for me.

It would be wonderful if an American Company could acquire Technics and bring them to life again. It was a great line of KBs.

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#467943 - 03/28/19 11:47 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
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Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5347
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Technics History here
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#467945 - 03/28/19 12:35 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
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Originally Posted By Dnj
Only reason a company dissolves a department is because it's not profitable I would think?

No, thats not allways the case..

In the case of technics, they ditched the arrangers as the numbers where to small...
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#467946 - 03/28/19 12:58 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bachus
Originally Posted By Dnj
Only reason a company dissolves a department is because it's not profitable I would think?

No, thats not allways the case..

In the case of technics, they ditched the arrangers as the numbers where to small...


also GEM, General Music, Farfisa, etc, and a slew of others....
at least we have a few left barley hanging on... keys

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#467949 - 03/28/19 01:25 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By Bachus
Originally Posted By Dnj
Only reason a company dissolves a department is because it's not profitable I would think?

No, thats not allways the case..

In the case of technics, they ditched the arrangers as the numbers where to small...


also GEM, General Music, Farfisa, etc, and a slew of others....
at least we have a few left barley hanging on... keys


Actually gem and general musics are names for the same company, and they filed for bankrupcy, when their major investor pulled out..
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#467950 - 03/28/19 01:36 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bachus
Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By Bachus
Originally Posted By Dnj
Only reason a company dissolves a department is because it's not profitable I would think?

No, thats not allways the case..

In the case of technics, they ditched the arrangers as the numbers where to small...


also GEM, General Music, Farfisa, etc, and a slew of others....
at least we have a few left barley hanging on... keys


Actually gem and general musics are names for the same company, and they filed for bankrupcy, when their major investor pulled out..



To my eyes changes in AK models and upgrades, etc, are getting far and few between more and more unlike years past.
..enjoy what you have. wink
Times are changing fast.


Edited by Dnj (03/28/19 01:37 PM)

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#467951 - 03/28/19 02:01 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
jingleman Online   content
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Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
Made an observation yesterday after picking up the mail. I received the most recent AMS catalog. The first 75% of the catalog comprised guitars, guitars, and more guitars. The last section was allocated to keyboards and miscellaneous gear.

It seems like all keyboards have taken a backseat when it comes to music merchandising.

jingleman

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#467953 - 03/28/19 04:21 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
tassiespirit Offline
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Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 554
Loc: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Originally Posted By Dnj


The much maligned arranger still has a roll to fill if they are comparing it to Ableton Live as being similar but you need to take your laptop and pre-program it first - every song. they set it up - and it does the same thing ( in its own way) as a totl arranger.

I saved that article and want to show it to a synth friend of mine who has an attitude about my PA4x lol.

Anyway, I still think, variety is the spice of life and if you put enough spice in your keyboard, no matter what variety/ make it is then you give it life!


Allan
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#467954 - 03/28/19 05:12 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: tassiespirit]
sparky589 Offline
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 1461
Loc: NJ
So does Fender, Gibson, etc pay for more ad space, give more free samples, or offer bigger product discounts in order to get most of the pages in retailers catalogs? Musicians Friend catalog doesn't count as they are Fender owned and thus obvious in their layouts.

Or is it just advancing technology gets the nod over more traditional ways of music production thereby getting the promotion?

That doesn't apply to guitars though..acoustic guitars are not dying off in the pages or retail outlets.

Makes me wonder if there were full page ads dedicated to a Genos or PA4x or more than just a photo of one lower model with just a list of other models and prices under it, would there be more sales?
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#467955 - 03/28/19 06:30 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
W Tracy Parnell Online   content
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Registered: 08/22/06
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The bright side is that as long as all of us are still here, arrangers will have a fan base. Will arrangers evolve in the future and "morph" with workstations to create a sort of hybrid keyboard that has the best features of both with perhaps some new features added such as launch pad? Or will they eventually just disappear? Time will tell, but the market outside the US is apparently still very strong.
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#467957 - 03/28/19 09:11 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
vangelis Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
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Loc: FLORIDA
Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By Bachus
Originally Posted By Dnj
Only reason a company dissolves a department is because it's not profitable I would think?

No, thats not allways the case..

In the case of technics, they ditched the arrangers as the numbers where to small...


also GEM, General Music, Farfisa, etc, and a slew of others....
at least we have a few left barley hanging on... keys


Well every Company has their story, Farfisa for example was a family owned business that the kids never took over the business from what a friend technician told me when he was a manager of tech dept there, and General Music went out of business because of a scam they had, something about collecting unemployment while the workers still working in another plant, Technics, I guess was not profitable so that went out.
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#467959 - 03/28/19 10:28 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
actually the reason why arrangers matter is simple
we all love to play them, and so they matter
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#467965 - 03/29/19 01:38 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bernie9 Offline
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Thanks Bachus
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#467967 - 03/29/19 03:45 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Bernie9]
bruno123 Online   content
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
So many opinions, and then Bachus wrote, “Actually the reason why arrangers matter is simple, we all love to play them”. Refreshing.

My Dad was a musician, I played many of the same songs as he did, but with a different feel. More drive. Then music to playing the old songs with contempory beats. Then R&R, three chord songs. Young musicians could put a band together after six guitar lessons. Music changed, and is still changing. Playing an arranger keyboard is not the best choice for today’s music. IMO!

1-The best part of my life was when I had my band. My arranger keyboard is the best substitute I can find. I’m still there.
2-Buying a Kn7000 was bring back some of the great arranger times.
3-When I pass my Pa1000 I smile, I like it.
4-Guitar was my favorite when I played in a band. Guitar it not as full, nor does it offer what an arranger offers.

These are some of my reasons why I try my best to stay away from all forms of pre-recorded music, I try to kept my keyboard as pure as it can be. It’s bad enough putting up with a recorded style.

Only my thoughts, John C.

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#467968 - 03/29/19 04:20 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: bruno123]
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By bruno123

The best part of my life was when I had my band. My arranger keyboard is the best substitute I can find. I’m still there.



++1 smile
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#467970 - 03/29/19 05:13 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: tony mads usa]
124 Offline
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Originally Posted By tony mads usa
Originally Posted By bruno123

The best part of my life was when I had my band. My arranger keyboard is the best substitute I can find. I’m still there.



++1 smile

Another ++1 to add. smile

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#467971 - 03/29/19 05:51 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
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#467984 - 03/29/19 12:37 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2442
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
wish that guy would show the keyboards while he's talking. But lots of good info.
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#467985 - 03/29/19 12:41 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2442
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
IMHO arrangers will morph into workstations and be more software based. It just makes sense to have a system that can be customizd and upgraded as needed by the user. Why companies don't do this more is strange. They could charge for the software updates so as not to loose income from selling new keyboards.
It seems there are so many keyboardists out there using laptops for sounds and effects live that the soft synth market will only grow.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#467991 - 03/29/19 03:13 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Jerry T Offline
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Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
I had my first paid gigs around 1956. Gone are the days when you showed up with your instrument in hand and just played acoustically. We thought we were hot stuff when we added a (one shared) amp and a (one shared) mic - lead singer in the middle/front and the OOH AHHH singers on the side. Then I went solo when I was introduced to my first little Casio and making backing tracks on cassette. From there, midi; Korg’s i5m, i5s and floppy discs and on and on to Gem, Roland, Ketron et al. Now, I don’t think I could, or would want to, do gigs without an arranger board or module. Well, maybe only strolling accordion when called for … but now I have the ability to transmit midi wirelessly …
Ciao


Edited by Jerry T (03/29/19 03:15 PM)

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#468001 - 03/29/19 09:46 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Bill Lewis]
Fran Carango Offline
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Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
IMHO arrangers will morph into workstations and be more software based. It just makes sense to have a system that can be customizd and upgraded as needed by the user. Why companies don't do this more is strange. They could charge for the software updates so as not to loose income from selling new keyboards.
It seems there are so many keyboardists out there using laptops for sounds and effects live that the soft synth market will only grow.



Bill, very few musicians I know have the patience to learn and use soft synths and arranger software, taking advantage of vst's.
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#468007 - 03/30/19 02:17 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
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Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5347
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Virtually all arranger keyboards are software based these days, however they are bespoke to the manufacture and they only fit hardware that allows small updates before the complete arranger has to be replaced. (Most also don’t allow 3rd party support)

Only two manufactures (That I am aware of) has long term upgrades, (Some free, some cost) these being Wersi and Bohm who make single keyboard versions of their organs with arranger features included, however the arranger features on-board are designed for organ play, (Where the player plays virtually everything themselves) not arranger play, (Although they do now allow 3rd party (From the big arranger manufactures) styles to be used so as to allow an easier transition from arranger play to organ play for those wishing to expand) Wersi (And Bohm with the optional Cloud Station) also allows 3rd party support via a VST Host on-board so that you can have pretty much anything you want.

Both are niche products, and being hand built cost significantly more that an easy play arranger keyboard that is mass produced, (Also organs have never been cheap) however that no one else has followed suit just shows how difficult it is to bring to widespread market, (Most arranger players prefer to press a button and have everything done for them rather than make themselves stand like the old organ players did by developing their own style of playing (Hence arrangers have always been aimed at home players) even though long term it works out cheaper for the customer and manufacture, (Software is much cheaper to change than hardware) for example the original Wersi OAS instruments came out in 2000 and were not discontinued until 2014 (And this was only because certain 3rd party hardware was no longer available) with many sound and feature updates over this time.

Arranger keyboard sales are on the slide and like the entertainment organs that they spawned from, will become a niche market in the future, but will still be around just like organs are.

Bill
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Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#468012 - 03/30/19 07:12 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: abacus]
rphillipchuk Online   content
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By abacus
Virtually all arranger keyboards are software based these days, however they are bespoke to the manufacture and they only fit hardware that allows small updates before the complete arranger has to be replaced. (Most also don’t allow 3rd party support)

Only two manufactures (That I am aware of) has long term upgrades, (Some free, some cost) these being Wersi and Bohm who make single keyboard versions of their organs with arranger features included, however the arranger features on-board are designed for organ play, (Where the player plays virtually everything themselves) not arranger play, (Although they do now allow 3rd party (From the big arranger manufactures) styles to be used so as to allow an easier transition from arranger play to organ play for those wishing to expand) Wersi (And Bohm with the optional Cloud Station) also allows 3rd party support via a VST Host on-board so that you can have pretty much anything you want.

Both are niche products, and being hand built cost significantly more that an easy play arranger keyboard that is mass produced, (Also organs have never been cheap) however that no one else has followed suit just shows how difficult it is to bring to widespread market, (Most arranger players prefer to press a button and have everything done for them rather than make themselves stand like the old organ players did by developing their own style of playing (Hence arrangers have always been aimed at home players) even though long term it works out cheaper for the customer and manufacture, (Software is much cheaper to change than hardware) for example the original Wersi OAS instruments came out in 2000 and were not discontinued until 2014 (And this was only because certain 3rd party hardware was no longer available) with many sound and feature updates over this time.

Arranger keyboard sales are on the slide and like the entertainment organs that they spawned from, will become a niche market in the future, but will still be around just like organs are.

Bill


Very well written and explained !
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#468014 - 03/30/19 07:51 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: abacus]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By abacus

Arranger keyboard sales are on the slide and like the entertainment organs that they spawned from, will become a niche market in the future, but will still be around just like organs are.
Bill


That is until the few remaining that remember them
is still alive......and then there were none.. frown

But as always something new will replace them.. cool2


Edited by Dnj (03/30/19 07:52 AM)

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#468017 - 03/30/19 08:52 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Fran Carango]
Bill Lewis Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2442
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
IMHO arrangers will morph into workstations and be more software based. It just makes sense to have a system that can be customizd and upgraded as needed by the user. Why companies don't do this more is strange. They could charge for the software updates so as not to loose income from selling new keyboards.
It seems there are so many keyboardists out there using laptops for sounds and effects live that the soft synth market will only grow.



Bill, very few musicians I know have the patience to learn and use soft synths and
arranger software, taking advantage of vst's.


Fran agreed and I'm pne of them. I nowlook back and regret all the time I spent programming instead of advancing my playing. But this discussion is about the future and kids today are much more savvy and not afraid of technology so who knows.
_________________________
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#468018 - 03/30/19 09:08 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2442
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Bill
Nice post and good info but the one flaw I see is the two companioes you mention cater to the home organist, not the younger preforming musicians. Moon River on a 20K digital organ is fine if thats what you want but the manufactures need to go more after the new crop of players out there.
Just a "simple and fast" way to program your own backing tracks or convert SMFs to Styles would be a big step forward.
Adding new sound sets according to your playing needs woud also be some starter ideas. My BK9 has some SN voices, why can't I get or even buy more to add to the keyboard.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#468020 - 03/30/19 09:15 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
Bill
Nice post and good info but the one flaw I see is the two companioes you mention cater to the home organist, not the younger preforming musicians. Moon River on a 20K digital organ is fine if thats what you want but the manufactures need to go more after the new crop of players out there.
Just a "simple and fast" way to program your own backing tracks or convert SMFs to Styles would be a big step forward.
Adding new sound sets according to your playing needs woud also be some starter ideas. My BK9 has some SN voices, why can't I get or even buy more to add to the keyboard.

You can convert SMFs to Styles in about 10 seconds on Korg PA4X. Not all perfect but a lot of them are very good.
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#468022 - 03/30/19 10:46 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: DonM]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By DonM
Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
Bill
Nice post and good info but the one flaw I see is the two companioes you mention cater to the home organist, not the younger preforming musicians. Moon River on a 20K digital organ is fine if thats what you want but the manufactures need to go more after the new crop of players out there.
Just a "simple and fast" way to program your own backing tracks or convert SMFs to Styles would be a big step forward.
Adding new sound sets according to your playing needs woud also be some starter ideas. My BK9 has some SN voices, why can't I get or even buy more to add to the keyboard.

You can convert SMFs to Styles in about 10 seconds on Korg PA4X. Not all perfect but a lot of them are very good.


Don I think you finally found YOUR perfect arranger KB with the KORG Pa4x, ...what else could you ask for with your needs at this time?...... keys

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#468024 - 03/30/19 11:33 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2442
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Don
Why did you tell me that ? I don't wanna buy another keyboard and now you made me think about it !!!
Korg sounds like a great machine, maybe there will be a software program that will work as simple and fast for Roland.
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#468027 - 03/30/19 12:00 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Bill Lewis]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
Don
Why did you tell me that ? I don't wanna buy another keyboard and now you made me think about it !!!
Korg sounds like a great machine, maybe there will be a software program that will work as simple and fast for Roland.


Bill you and a korg Pa4x 76....
Perfect together... Just sayin keys


Edited by Dnj (03/30/19 12:11 PM)

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#468043 - 03/31/19 07:09 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Uncle Dave Offline
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Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By Dnj


That is until the few remaining that remember them
is still alive......and then there were none.. frown


There's my little Debbie Downer.
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#468045 - 03/31/19 07:49 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Uncle Dave]
travlin'easy Online   happy
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Dnj


That is until the few remaining that remember them
is still alive......and then there were none.. frown


There's my little Debbie Downer.


rotfl
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#468046 - 03/31/19 08:49 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By travlin'easy
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Dnj


That is until the few remaining that remember them
is still alive......and then there were none.. frown


There's my little Debbie Downer.


rotfl


Let the truth be told wink ... or let's face reality,
the G70 is the "BEST" arranger Kb that ever was & ever will be!


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#468048 - 03/31/19 09:50 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By travlin'easy
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Dnj


That is until the few remaining that remember them
is still alive......and then there were none.. frown


There's my little Debbie Downer.


rotfl


Let the truth be told wink ... or let's face reality,
the G70 is the "BEST" arranger Kb that ever was & ever will be!



Hmmmm ... Is Fran disguising himself as Donny?!? confused1
_________________________
t. cool

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#468051 - 03/31/19 11:36 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Sunday afternoon levity ... gotta LOVE IT!
_________________________
No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#468054 - 03/31/19 11:38 AM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
DNJ, there is one for sale. You'd better jump on it! smile
_________________________
DonM

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#468057 - 03/31/19 12:00 PM Re: Why Arranger Keyboards Matter.... [Re: DonM]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By DonM
DNJ, there is one for sale. You'd better jump on it! smile


Don been there as you know..... cool2
S670 is more then enough for arranger needs.

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