The notes Ab- Bb- C- Eb- G which make up the Ab Maj 7,9 register as C min 7 on the 6500,However on my Roland G 800, which is about 6 years old now, it registers correctly as Ab maj 7 9 and it will also give me an Ab maj 7 9 #11 in fact it gives any chord asked for.Cheers Jean.

it only registers Cmin7 in fingered, in pianist it registers AbM79 (and #11s).

It's all pretty academic anyway since with 8 tracks of backing playing and 2 tracks of a pad on top you won't hear the difference.

If you want to play jazz like this play bass and piano only with on-bass in pianist mode and use all the inversions properly. Then you'll get all the subtleties. Otherwise it's a waste of time with all the automatics going.

Let's face it, once your past 9ths there's usually 2 or 3 ways of naming the same chord anyway depending on root and other stuff...

This is interesting stuff.!!! I meant to add that I had both keyboards in "split" mode.I have given up trying to play jazz chords in "split" mode- I save that for the organ. since I am not a pianist, and I can play the root in the base, and as you say Alec, there is so much going on there isn't much point in it. Sometimes a 9th works O.K. However I have found that if I dont get the right chord registering on the screen the base will not play the correct notes.For example, If I play the Ab major 7 9 as above and it registers as C min 7 I get the bass playing a C instead of an Ab. My teacher is very pedantic about this and listens to the baseline very carefully, If I put the "on bass" on it means I have to play every chord with the required note at the bottom and that may not be in the most familiar inversion -Just for the sake of a couple of chords. I have at times muted the bassline and sequenced in my own which means I can vary the bass to my own liking. What do you think of this? No good for playing "live" I know but I am mostly concerned with sequencing for "backings" for my choir.
Although I have compared the Roland and the 6500 in this feature the 6500 is far more versatile in what you can do with it. I am utterly astounded at its performance. No one keyboard can have everything- I think you just have to work out what is important to you personally. Reguards. Jean.

Gotta agree with Alec on this one. If you want your keyboard to sound like a piano, why didn't you just buy an EP or a PR series? If you only play for yourself, then you can be as demanding as you like, but if most of your playing is for the enjoyment of others, mostly non-players, then who cares what the chord notation is? Ninty-nine percent of your listening audience can tell if you move to a minor chord or up to a seventh, but if you whistled in their ear when you went farther, they still wouldn't notice the difference! Give them a good sounding, toe-tapping song each time, and they will applaud your efforts. Go classical on them, and they will go to the bar for another drink and your splendid effort will fall on deaf ears. Sorry, but I subscribe to the George Martin "Keep it simple" school of thought.

[This message has been edited by Bud Whipple (edited 06-24-2002).]

Jean, the fact that your are Wanting to create Baselines of your own show that you are very musically aware and that it can be "bettered" by using "your" own basses (bettered to suit you Jean) and that is very good and shows you have a good imagination and aptitude for music as a whole. I tried this on My KN1000 when I had this model (great in it's day, and still good, despite it's limited "note capacity” of around 6500/7500 notes, and the inability to copy notes without using up more memory. I played the Song "Nikita" (by Elton John), on the KN1000/Korg M1 and to get that professional sound to my bass, I had to sequence these lines. One could always stick to the default bass patterns provided by the keyboard…but I also felt that I had to add my own figurations to give it a more "professional" edge. Same with the drums too. The Fill-ins were ok, but not EXACTLY what I wanted!. I love creativity -

Yes Bud, keep it simple, but let not one be afraid to get the sound THEY want...even if it only pleases the player(s)

Good luck Jean


J5



[This message has been edited by Jupitar5 (edited 06-24-2002).]

I agree with Jean that some songs don't sound right with automatic bass, and the alternative is to use on-bass and learn the proper inversions and roots. Sequencing the bass is perfectly viable, easier than practising the inversions etc required, why not? Only a purist would object, and why is a purist playing an auto general arranger?

But I also agree with Bud that a clever and interesting backing can fool the unwary listener, where perhaps it can mask the auto bass and still provide a perfectly acceptable performance for the majority of listeners. Again, a purist may object, but the same argument.

It's all down to personal taste - let's drink to personal taste!

.

It's all down to personal taste - let's drink to personal taste! [/B][/QUOTE]

Have I missed something?. who's buying?. Walter.

What I have read by all sounds interesting, but I stand by a fact that if you LEARN how to lay down a bass track in COMPOSER, you will never again be pleased with 99 percent of bass responses in pre-set rhythms. They sound fine when you play a "C" chord and listen to the complete rhythm - using it in a song in a PROFESSIONAL sounding way, is another matter. Sorry folks, in uneducated English, "It don't work!" Once you fully understand the limitations BUT proper placement of composing a bass line, you will understand that you won't have a problem with inversions. For a bass to work well in a song, these limitations become the old adage, "less, is more." What I have said in NO WAY is taking away from some very interesting ideas set forth in some of the pre-set rhythms, it is more the VARIATIONS that suffer badly. I have heard some very impressive INTROS and ENDINGS and on occasion, FILL-INS on pre-sets and then everything else falls flat. In reality, how could anyone think these pre-sets, based on 4 measures, could ever sound professional? They are purely done for the novice musician to "have fun" with. "Fun" is fine, but wouldn't you rather be a better musician? The KN6000/KN6500 has the ability to create music that is totally professional. LISTEN! And above all, listen to yourself and learn - you will be surprised what you will be able to come forth with, if you will just start using COMPOSER and create your own styles. One of the first things to learn laying down a track is to BE that musician - whether it be a bass player - understand, the way a bassist plays. He or she doesn't just "play" a note, they more often than not, "reach" for a note. You do this by "bending" the note with your PITCH BEND wheel. Keep in mind, when a bass player plays, he is more often than not, fingering up to a note. The same thing applies to a sax or guitar player - They just don't "play" notes, they bend (guitar) or cup (sax) a note. This is done, of course, in the RIGHT places. This gives you realism - life, to a performance. LOSE THE MECHANICAL SOUND. This applies especially to DRUM tracks. If a drum track doesn't sound well, the other tracks more than likely won't either. Again, listen and ask yourself, "Is this the way a drummer would play?" If it isn't, then experiment further with new ideas. Try different drum sounds and syncopated rhythms. YOU CAN DO IT!!!

I think we have 2 threads of discussion here. The first is one of style - playing a groove in the composer, using bend etc to mimic the slurs and fractional off the beat playing that gives a distinctive flavour rather than a mechanical repetition.

The second was one of note progression where the standard root progression is not enough, for whatever reason. Here you can practise your inversions and learn to use on-bass for those C on G type effects. Or simply sequence a different bass afterwards.

Or a third possibility that might work in a variety of situations is to use the chord modify change on the entire bass track, or on individual bass notes in the composer. Here you could define how the bass reacts to various chord changes beforehand, and still play normally with left hand live.

Alec. I will investigate that third possibility. Thank you for the suggestion. I have only just aquired the 6500 and am not a "pro',only a learner, but am very determined to find out everything it does.
I agree with Bud--If I play live, I play the most comfortable chords and being used to the organ, that means as little finger changing as possible. as Bud says you can get away with a few off notes, although when i play an Em7 on G and get a G6 with a base on G and D instead of E and B,I think I have to do better than this.
If I am putting down a backing for my choir the base is very important. Sometimes the men even vocalise the base line, so it has to be right. Apsrt from that every one has a taped copy to practice to so the "evidence" is floating around for months. At the stage I am at I think it is safer for me to sequence the bass in, after all I sequence in the other "voices"
Now, when I am learning a new song just to play "live" , I mute everything but the rythmn and the base-- this is in "split" mode as I am not a pianist,and I play the chords to see what I can get without too much jumping around. Sometimes a tritone substitution on the dominant gives a nice descending base line and is well worth it, so I understand what N.S.R is getting at although I still have to master the COMPOSER.Thank goodness I'm only 72 and have plenty of time left for all this. Thank you all. I love this forum. Cheers Jean.

[This message has been edited by Jean Olivia (edited 06-25-2002).]