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#465439 - 01/30/19 07:54 AM What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	https://musik.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en.html https://www.musicradar.com/event/musikmesse
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#465442 - 01/30/19 08:09 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
mc2pereira Member Registered: 07/27/10 Posts: 71 Loc: Campo Grande, MS, BRASIL	Within the current scenario, I would like Roland to launch an arranger of the level that was the G70. All other brands are current.
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#465471 - 01/30/19 11:55 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: mc2pereira]
Bachus Senior Member Registered: 03/02/06 Posts: 7143	Originally Posted By mc2pereira Within the current scenario, I would like Roland to launch an arranger of the level that was the G70. All other brands are current. Thats not going to happen, Roland left the above 2k market... Their major income comes now from sub €500 devices and boutiques.. For Musikmesse : - expect a major upgrade of the current Genos(software) - the CVP809 clavinova - a new organ clone from Nord - an 88 key from Ketron. - a new Havian from Korg - the new korg pa5x _________________________ Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro. http://keyszone.boards.net
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#465499 - 01/31/19 06:17 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By Bachus Originally Posted By mc2pereira Within the current scenario, I would like Roland to launch an arranger of the level that was the G70. All other brands are current. Thats not going to happen, Roland left the above 2k market... Their major income comes now from sub €500 devices and boutiques.. For Musikmesse : - expect a major upgrade of the current Genos(software) - the CVP809 clavinova - a new organ clone from Nord - an 88 key from Ketron. - a new Havian from Korg - the new korg pa5x a new korg pa5x?..... why a big OS update on the pa4x with a new model emerging? as I see it less and less is happening arranger wise as we know it... as with any technology eventually it moves on to something else as it should.
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#465510 - 01/31/19 09:03 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
DonM Senior Member Registered: 06/25/99 Posts: 16735 Loc: Benton, LA, USA	Probably later this year for a 5x. Korg released a major upgrade less than a year before new model came out in the past. They take care of their customers! _________________________ DonM
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#465514 - 01/31/19 09:55 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: DonM]
Gunnar Jonny Senior Member Registered: 04/01/01 Posts: 4333 Loc: Norway	Originally Posted By DonM ....They take care of their customers! Yes, and Korg also release some free stylepacks frequently. 👍 Also this place started off great some years ago, but now it looks like it is full stagnation? _________________________ Cheers 🥂 GJ _______________________________________________ "Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
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#465517 - 01/31/19 10:14 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
dud Member Registered: 05/05/01 Posts: 232 Loc: israel	I am not shure that any company will make the effort of making a new proffesional arranger ,its a dad zone , we are only few who interesing in arrangeres , the market is changing there are not places to work with it ,and we are getting older and most of us even do not perform any more. _________________________ davidfle@walla.co.il
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#465519 - 01/31/19 10:28 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: dud]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By dud I am not shure that any company will make the effort of making a new proffesional arranger ,its a dad zone , we are only few who interesing in arrangeres , the market is changing there are not places to work with it ,and we are getting older and most of us even do not perform any more. Amen to that,....finally someone who gets it... Edited by Dnj (01/31/19 10:29 AM)
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#465522 - 01/31/19 10:51 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: dud]
Fran Carango Senior Member Registered: 05/26/99 Posts: 9673 Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA	Originally Posted By dud I am not shure that any company will make the effort of making a new proffesional arranger ,its a dad zone , we are only few who interesing in arrangeres , the market is changing there are not places to work with it ,and we are getting older and most of us even do not perform any more. The most mis understood instrument.. Everyone gets caught up in auto play, they miss the point... the arranger keyboard (pro models).. are full feature instruments that can do multiple jobs, and replace any instrument needed to perform.. It is a digital piano, it is a multi layered/ split instrument.. It is an excellent drum machine, or an individual part play like a bass.. to add to real play.. It is a mixer, it is a mic preamp, it is an audio router.. It is a audio and midi interface. And yes it will play back full auto arrangements if that is your need, as well as Audio/midi file playbacks..(Great studio assist features). There is no reason pro arrangers can not survive in a changing music world... They can adapt to any need any musician needs. And age is not a factor at all.... education is.. _________________________ www.francarango.com
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#465527 - 01/31/19 11:31 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Fran Carango]
sparky589 Senior Member Registered: 11/12/11 Posts: 1461 Loc: NJ	I do wonder, if every member here could buy a TOTL arranger from company X, and I don't know how many there are (Nigel?) , and were pledged to buy via firm obligation/deposit and did so, would that amount of sales still make it worth while for company X to consider manufacturing it? Of course we don't represent all estimated sales but would we have an influence? I am skeptical that we would be a strong enough lobbying group to make this happen, and am curious what the projected sales figure is that makes the decision to or not to develop and manufacture...what's the magic $$ number? Edited by sparky589 (01/31/19 11:33 AM) _________________________ The older I get, the better I was..
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#465528 - 01/31/19 11:42 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
TedS Member Registered: 04/28/06 Posts: 808 Loc: North Texas, USA	Sorry sparky. I like Roland best, but the BK-9 (at least the style creation engine) was fraught with software bugs, many of which I would guess were never resolved. Similar experience with another boutique brand. So I personally wouldn't pledge any money until after a hands-on test. Yamaha is the most conservative, they rarely introduce new features. Because of this, there's no reason to upgrade from my T5 anytime soon. My $.02.
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#465529 - 01/31/19 12:20 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: TedS]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By TedS Sorry sparky. I like Roland best, but the BK-9 (at least the style creation engine) was fraught with software bugs, many of which I would guess were never resolved. Similar experience with another boutique brand. So I personally wouldn't pledge any money until after a hands-on test. Yamaha is the most conservative, they rarely introduce new features. Because of this, there's no reason to upgrade from my T5 anytime soon. My $.02. Many players enjoy the T4 better than T5 or Genos I recall reading..
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#465539 - 01/31/19 03:55 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
sparky589 Senior Member Registered: 11/12/11 Posts: 1461 Loc: NJ	I think my real question was how much $$, either estimated or guaranteed, is enough to tip the scales for a company to make a new arranger, or even get their attention? Ted- are you anywhere near Flower Mound? I have family there. Edited by sparky589 (01/31/19 03:56 PM) _________________________ The older I get, the better I was..
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#465541 - 01/31/19 04:04 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
DonM Senior Member Registered: 06/25/99 Posts: 16735 Loc: Benton, LA, USA	Our purchases here in the U.S. are not really significant, as far as I know. International sales are a different picture. I have two really great arrangers, Roland EA7 and Korg PA4X. Of course the Korg remains really close to a perfect arranger for me. Not without its faults of course. The Roland sounds good, is very portable but lacks some of the features I like and use. The new OS being released by Korg actually addresses some of my needs, such as ability to freeze KeySet. _________________________ DonM
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#465557 - 02/01/19 05:24 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Riceroni9 Senior Member Registered: 11/15/04 Posts: 1298 Loc: TX, USA	I believe Fran has the same faith I have in "high-end" Arrangers. (No matter the brand!) As folks discover the multi-tasking capabilities, fantastic sounds and features... some of the "stigma" seemingly attached to Arrangers will begin to disappear. Like writing a hit song... all it takes is one... and in this instance, one big name stage presence musician or singer appearing on stage with an arranger... on National TV... will open the floodgates. As I've said before, Arrangers are the best kept secret in the American Music Scene today. (A song-writer's equivalent of the "Cavalry Riding up over the hill to the rescue!) I would be lost without mine. In my case, an Arranger is not a guarantee for success in getting one's songs to performers... but it sure helps level the playing field. (Just one old man's opinion!)
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#465558 - 02/01/19 06:59 AM ARRANGER KEYBOARDS [Re: sparky589]
Harold123 Member Registered: 06/13/10 Posts: 439 Loc: Harrisville Pa USA	We Have NOW 2 Pro Arrangers...Yamaha Genos Released About one Year Ago.....A System update coming soon....Korg PA4x released about 3 years ago...A second System update coming soon...Also For Sure a New Korg Pro Arranger coming within the Year....Really What more can we ask for?...The pro Musicians using Pro Synths or Stage Pianos have No Need to switch to an Arranger...It,s NOT what they WANT Period!...Do We Play Synths very little...They don't fit our Needs...Are arrangers dead No! We have many low end, Middle level arrangers being sold or the top 3 Manufactures would not be spending the money to produce them...We have Korg and Yamaha still offering Total Pro arrangers...WHAT MORE COULD WE ASK FOR?....Just play them and be thankful...Also How Many Here on this forum Have Made Very respectable Living using the Middle range Arrangers?.Just My 2 cents...Count our blessings Friends...Harold Edited by Harold123 (02/01/19 07:06 AM)
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#465559 - 02/01/19 07:37 AM Re: ARRANGER KEYBOARDS [Re: Harold123]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By Harold123 We Have NOW 2 Pro Arrangers...Yamaha Genos Released About one Year Ago.....A System update coming soon....Korg PA4x released about 3 years ago...A second System update coming soon...Also For Sure a New Korg Pro Arranger coming within the Year....Really What more can we ask for?...The pro Musicians using Pro Synths or Stage Pianos have No Need to switch to an Arranger...It,s NOT what they WANT Period!...Do We Play Synths very little...They don't fit our Needs...Are arrangers dead No! We have many low end, Middle level arrangers being sold or the top 3 Manufactures would not be spending the money to produce them...We have Korg and Yamaha still offering Total Pro arrangers...WHAT MORE COULD WE ASK FOR?....Just play them and be thankful...Also How Many Here on this forum Have Made Very respectable Living using the Middle range Arrangers?.Just My 2 cents...Count our blessings Friends...Harold You left out the fantastic KETRON SD9 ?...which in my opinion sounds more live and realistic styles/sounds, and unique features that rival the competition also in many ways then the both mentioned above.
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#465560 - 02/01/19 07:43 AM Re: ARRANGER KEYBOARDS [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703
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#465561 - 02/01/19 07:45 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Fran Carango]
Tostie Member Registered: 09/17/06 Posts: 162	Originally Posted By Fran Carango Originally Posted By dud I am not shure that any company will make the effort of making a new proffesional arranger ,its a dad zone , we are only few who interesing in arrangeres , the market is changing there are not places to work with it ,and we are getting older and most of us even do not perform any more. The most mis understood instrument.. Everyone gets caught up in auto play, they miss the point... the arranger keyboard (pro models).. are full feature instruments that can do multiple jobs, and replace any instrument needed to perform.. It is a digital piano, it is a multi layered/ split instrument.. It is an excellent drum machine, or an individual part play like a bass.. to add to real play.. It is a mixer, it is a mic preamp, it is an audio router.. It is a audio and midi interface. And yes it will play back full auto arrangements if that is your need, as well as Audio/midi file playbacks..(Great studio assist features). There is no reason pro arrangers can not survive in a changing music world... They can adapt to any need any musician needs. And age is not a factor at all.... education is.. Amen to that.
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#465568 - 02/01/19 09:07 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: dud]
Bachus Senior Member Registered: 03/02/06 Posts: 7143	Originally Posted By dud I am not shure that any company will make the effort of making a new proffesional arranger ,its a dad zone , we are only few who interesing in arrangeres , the market is changing there are not places to work with it ,and we are getting older and most of us even do not perform any more. Due to the asian market... salesnumbers of arrangers still top the lists.. However, totl arrangers don’t really sell in Asia as they are quite expensive Future of totl arrangers? They will be combined with high end workstations (which are also considered a death horse)... in an adapted form, think more akin to Ketrons launchpads.. _________________________ Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro. http://keyszone.boards.net
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#465580 - 02/01/19 02:12 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Bachus]
Harold123 Member Registered: 06/13/10 Posts: 439 Loc: Harrisville Pa USA	Donny...You are 100% correct...I was in such a hurry to voice My opinion I missed Ketron Products...Yes they still are producing High End Arrangers and Modules...And Yes they are in the Top three...Which is Best is not what this topic is about...Boy We have So Many choices...These Companies are far from being DEAD...Again My Views only...Harold
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#468128 - 04/02/19 06:27 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	not much in the way of arranger kb products? Winter NAMM 2019 Musikmesse 2019 Summer NAMM 2019 Winter Namm 2020...... is this the end of times? Edited by Dnj (04/02/19 07:41 AM)
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#468140 - 04/02/19 08:42 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Eric, B Senior Member Registered: 12/15/99 Posts: 2028 Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA	Originally Posted By Dnj not much in the way of arranger kb products? is this the end of times? Donny, You have been beating that drum for some time now. Arranger KB's are released every 3-4 years. Not every 1-2 years. I know you are bored. ... I guess you have to up your Prozac meanwhile ... Just poking at you ... Eric _________________________ Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer
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#468141 - 04/02/19 08:48 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Eric, B]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By Eric, B Originally Posted By Dnj not much in the way of arranger kb products? is this the end of times? Donny, You have been beating that drum for some time now. Arranger KB's are released every 3-4 years. Not every 1-2 years. I know you are bored. ... I guess you have to up your Prozac meanwhile ... Just poking at you ... Eric Eric exactly my point,... years ago releases were so much more frequent. The 3 to 4 years release fallacy is just part of the demise of the arranger kb as we know it,..times are changing..... don't be fooled as hard as it is to accept. just sayin'
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#468147 - 04/02/19 10:12 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Eric, B Senior Member Registered: 12/15/99 Posts: 2028 Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA	Tyros 1 2002 Tyros 2 2005 = 3 years Tyros 3 2008 = 3 years Tyros 4 2010 = 2 years Tyros 5 2013 = 3 years Genos 2017 = 4 years Average = 3 years for the past 17 years No change there. Breathe Donny. You need to get a new Crystal ball. You can borrow mine if you like. Good things are coming ... Just be patient. Eric _________________________ Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer
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#468150 - 04/02/19 10:33 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Eric, B]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By Eric, B Tyros 1 2002 Tyros 2 2005 = 3 years Tyros 3 2008 = 3 years Tyros 4 2010 = 2 years Tyros 5 2013 = 3 years Genos 2017 = 4 years Average = 3 years for the past 17 years No change there. Breathe Donny. You need to get a new Crystal ball. You can borrow mine if you like. Good things are coming ... Just be patient. Eric You forgot all the PSR & S models...... and all the other companies releases too...not just Yamaha.
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#468151 - 04/02/19 10:47 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Eric, B Senior Member Registered: 12/15/99 Posts: 2028 Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA	I know, you are welcome to look that up yourself. This was just an example. It feels like shorter times since the PSR models are released between the top models. So are other companies. Times remain the same never the less. Eric _________________________ Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer
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#468192 - 04/04/19 10:23 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
jimlaing Member Registered: 09/24/02 Posts: 579 Loc: Raleigh, NC	So, to get back to the topic ... I'm curious ... was there anything announced of interest at Musikmesse this week? _________________________ Genos / Tyros5 / HK Lucas Nano 600 / FTB Maxx 40a / EV ZX1A / Rock'n'Roller cart / Hauptwerk virtual pipe organ / misc other audio & music toys
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#468194 - 04/04/19 11:03 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Crossover Member Registered: 11/19/17 Posts: 596	Nord Grand and Kurzweil PC-4, I guess that was the most important news.
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#468196 - 04/04/19 12:46 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Crossover]
Bachus Senior Member Registered: 03/02/06 Posts: 7143	Originally Posted By Crossover Nord Grand and Kurzweil PC-4, I guess that was the most important news. Nord grand is a Nord Piano, with a high end kawaii keybed Kurzweil PC4 is a mid range workstation competing with Roland Fa, Yamaha Modx, Korg Krome.. might be the only one comming close to the modx... There was really not much else going on.. Edited by Bachus (04/04/19 12:47 PM) _________________________ Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro. http://keyszone.boards.net
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#468197 - 04/04/19 12:55 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Senior Member Registered: 09/21/00 Posts: 43703	Originally Posted By Bachus [quote=Crossover] There was really not much else going on.. not a good sign of things to come... start squirreling things away for the future.. ....
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#468217 - 04/05/19 07:45 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Senior Member Registered: 03/02/06 Posts: 7143	Originally Posted By Dnj Originally Posted By Bachus [quote=Crossover] There was really not much else going on.. not a good sign of things to come... start squirreling things away for the future.. .... Or things are changing and musikmesse isn’t as important as it used to be.. As said, superbooth next month in Berlin is preferred by both fans and press above music messe.. _________________________ Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro. http://keyszone.boards.net
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#468218 - 04/05/19 07:54 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Dnj]
Crossover Member Registered: 11/19/17 Posts: 596	I second that, and there‘s also a trend to release new instruments independently from tradeshow dates. See the best Roland released in the past 7 years: Integra was released in autumn.
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#468222 - 04/05/19 10:36 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Crossover]
Eric, B Senior Member Registered: 12/15/99 Posts: 2028 Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA	Here is a list of all the exhibitors: https://www.superbooth.com/en/messe-102.html Eric _________________________ Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer
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#468224 - 04/05/19 11:26 AM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Eric, B]
Crossover Member Registered: 11/19/17 Posts: 596	Originally Posted By Eric, B Here is a list of all the exhibitors: https://www.superbooth.com/en/messe-102.html Eric Thanks. Kurzweil, Korg, Nord, Roland and Yamaha are present. It‘s quite a small scale, 13,000 m2 total indoor area. The building is normally used as a childrens‘ leisure center.
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#468226 - 04/05/19 12:05 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Crossover]
Bachus Senior Member Registered: 03/02/06 Posts: 7143	Originally Posted By Crossover Originally Posted By Eric, B Here is a list of all the exhibitors: https://www.superbooth.com/en/messe-102.html Eric Thanks. Kurzweil, Korg, Nord, Roland and Yamaha are present. It‘s quite a small scale, 13,000 m2 total indoor area. The building is normally used as a childrens‘ leisure center. Which means : Roland, Ketron, Casio, Kawai, Moog, DSI and many more where not present. But whats worse much of the press that usually reported wasn’t there either. _________________________ Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro. http://keyszone.boards.net
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#468228 - 04/05/19 01:29 PM Re: What to expect at Musikmesse 2019. 2–5 April 2019 [Re: Bachus]
Crossover Member Registered: 11/19/17 Posts: 596	Originally Posted By Bachus Originally Posted By Crossover Originally Posted By Eric, B Here is a list of all the exhibitors: https://www.superbooth.com/en/messe-102.html Eric Thanks. Kurzweil, Korg, Nord, Roland and Yamaha are present. It‘s quite a small scale, 13,000 m2 total indoor area. The building is normally used as a childrens‘ leisure center. Which means : Roland, Ketron, Casio, Kawai, Moog, DSI and many more where not present. But whats worse much of the press that usually reported wasn’t there either. But Eric's and my post were about Superbooth in May, not Musikmesse.
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