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#465230 - 01/26/19 11:09 AM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Mikem]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By Mikem


Better than the Roland SN sounds? Yes, Donny. They're better than Roland's SN sounds.





WOAH ... I smell the wrath of Fran a comin ... (bring it on!)
smile
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#465237 - 01/26/19 12:02 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Mikem]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Mikem
Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By Mikem
Originally Posted By jingleman
Nice find Mike. Both keyboards sound great, but that Genos...with the incredibly realistic solo sounds...makes the music really come alive.

Thanks again Mike,
jingleman



You're welcome, Jingleman! I agree with you about Genos' solo sounds. They're simply the best. smile


Better than the Roland SN sounds?




Yes, Donny. They're better than Roland's SN sounds. I've heard countless demos, and even tried an Integra-7 a few times in different stores. Yamaha's high-end arrangers have the best, most realistic acoustic instrument sounds. However, having said this, there are many very good SN sounds.

As far as strings, I've never been crazy about Yamaha's. I much prefer the SN ones. I've also compared Kurzweil's and Roland's. I believe Kurzweil's strings are more realistic. Some actually gave me goosebumps. smile

I'm considering getting the MODX, because it sounds even better than the Motif XF, but I still don't think it's strings are great. I'll probably want another keyboard or module, or even a string library I can load in the MODX or Motif.

Maybe, someone who has experience with the MODX's strings and the Integra-7's may like to comment.

Thank you. smile



I would forget demos online they don't give the SN or any KB justice....
respect your opinion I just can not agree at all Roland gets my nod..

take care

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#465238 - 01/26/19 12:21 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Mikem]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
I owned the Integra for several years. The main thing lacking with the SN-A solo sounds is a realistic vibrato. If a vibrato is not sampled, but created by modeling parameters, it just never sounds realistic. I especially disliked the vibrato of solo strings.
Some of the underlying „samples“ the SN-A sounds are derived from are also not too convincing. Saxophones are really poor.
Take the trumpets. The physical modeling provides some very nice effects such as glissandi and legato. But on the other hand, the vibrato sucks. All in all, I often preferred a Yamaha Motif or Ketron trumpet with a nice vibrato over the SN-A trumpet that never sounded inspiring when playing long notes.

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#465245 - 01/26/19 01:01 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Dnj]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
I would forget demos online they don't give the SN or any KB justice....
respect your opinion I just can not agree at all Roland gets my nod..

take care, Donny.



That's ok, Donny. We all have our own taste, and needs. And we probably don't hear in the same way, either. smile

Thankfully, there are a number of very good keyboards. One will appeal to one, another will appeal to someone else.

The important thing is to acknowledge others' opinions, and not get angry just because they differ....and that's exactly what you did; you respect my opinion, and I respect yours. smile

To illustrate, I (born of Italian immigrants to Canada) prefer custard-filled cannoli. My parents instead, prefer ricotta-filled cannoli. So, when I buy Italian pastries, I always make sure there are both types. Non e' un problema! smile


Edited by Mikem (01/26/19 01:13 PM)
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#465248 - 01/26/19 01:10 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Crossover]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By Crossover
I owned the Integra for several years. The main thing lacking with the SN-A solo sounds is a realistic vibrato. If a vibrato is not sampled, but created by modeling parameters, it just never sounds realistic. I especially disliked the vibrato of solo strings.
Some of the underlying „samples“ the SN-A sounds are derived from are also not too convincing. Saxophones are really poor.
Take the trumpets. The physical modeling provides some very nice effects such as glissandi and legato. But on the other hand, the vibrato sucks. All in all, I often preferred a Yamaha Motif or Ketron trumpet with a nice vibrato over the SN-A trumpet that never sounded inspiring when playing long notes.



I, too, disliked some of the vibrato's, especially on certain instruments, like, reeds and brass. On the plus side, the Integra-7 has the SRX boards, including the SRX-10 (brass), and the SRX-06 (orchestral - strings, woodwinds and brass), which I find to be more realistic.

So, how do you compare the MODX's strings to the Integra's SN and SRX strings? How about DSF's strings? Again, they say the strings on the MODX are better than the Motif's, and I would agree, but to my ears, they still are not extremely convincing, especially the large ensembles.

Thanks for you comments. smile
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Mike

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#465251 - 01/26/19 01:17 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Uncle Dave]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Mikem


Better than the Roland SN sounds? Yes, Donny. They're better than Roland's SN sounds.





WOAH ... I smell the wrath of Fran a comin ... (bring it on!)
smile



No, no. No wrath, just differing opinions. smile If we can't voice our opinions on this, or any, forum, what's the point? I love hearing others' opinions. I always try to learn something new.
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#465294 - 01/27/19 10:27 AM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Mikem]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Originally Posted By Mikem
Originally Posted By Crossover
I owned the Integra for several years. The main thing lacking with the SN-A solo sounds is a realistic vibrato. If a vibrato is not sampled, but created by modeling parameters, it just never sounds realistic. I especially disliked the vibrato of solo strings.
Some of the underlying „samples“ the SN-A sounds are derived from are also not too convincing. Saxophones are really poor.
Take the trumpets. The physical modeling provides some very nice effects such as glissandi and legato. But on the other hand, the vibrato sucks. All in all, I often preferred a Yamaha Motif or Ketron trumpet with a nice vibrato over the SN-A trumpet that never sounded inspiring when playing long notes.




I, too, disliked some of the vibrato's, especially on certain instruments, like, reeds and brass. On the plus side, the Integra-7 has the SRX boards, including the SRX-10 (brass), and the SRX-06 (orchestral - strings, woodwinds and brass), which I find to be more realistic.

So, how do you compare the MODX's strings to the Integra's SN and SRX strings? How about DSF's strings? Again, they say the strings on the MODX are better than the Motif's, and I would agree, but to my ears, they still are not extremely convincing, especially the large ensembles.

Thanks for you comments. smile



I‘m not sure yet. The new dedicated sections such as Seattle Violins, Seattle Violas etc. sound very realistic to me whenever I test them, but the full US Strings ensemble less so. I still have to get into the details and to the waveform level to edit my own voices composed of nothing but the new waveforms to be sure how good they are. The violins, violas etc. seem to be better than those of the Roland SRX 04 and on a similar level as the DSF Symphonic strings.
I also have iSymphonic orchestra for IOS (including some of its expansions), I think this is at least as good as the Montage strings. Maybe I made a mistake buying the MODX in view of tens of thousands of euros spent for medical things in the past few years, and I should have invested in more software libraries to make a real leap in terms of realism of sounds... The FM-X part of the MODX is completely spoilt on me, I don't need it.
I also dislike the MODX/Montage's architecture with its lacking separation between voices and performances. It's just not the workflow I'm used to, I'm not crazy about the touchscreen either, I don't always hit the right field when editing things.
Anyway, I‘m going to prepare comparative versions of my orchestral sequencer files soon.


Edited by Crossover (01/27/19 10:45 AM)

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#465309 - 01/27/19 05:05 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Mikem]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
I uploaded dedicated Seattle violins waveform demos now, they are very realistic to my ears.

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#465313 - 01/27/19 07:05 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Crossover]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By Crossover
Originally Posted By Mikem
Originally Posted By Crossover
I owned the Integra for several years. The main thing lacking with the SN-A solo sounds is a realistic vibrato. If a vibrato is not sampled, but created by modeling parameters, it just never sounds realistic. I especially disliked the vibrato of solo strings.
Some of the underlying „samples“ the SN-A sounds are derived from are also not too convincing. Saxophones are really poor.
Take the trumpets. The physical modeling provides some very nice effects such as glissandi and legato. But on the other hand, the vibrato sucks. All in all, I often preferred a Yamaha Motif or Ketron trumpet with a nice vibrato over the SN-A trumpet that never sounded inspiring when playing long notes.




I, too, disliked some of the vibrato's, especially on certain instruments, like, reeds and brass. On the plus side, the Integra-7 has the SRX boards, including the SRX-10 (brass), and the SRX-06 (orchestral - strings, woodwinds and brass), which I find to be more realistic.

So, how do you compare the MODX's strings to the Integra's SN and SRX strings? How about DSF's strings? Again, they say the strings on the MODX are better than the Motif's, and I would agree, but to my ears, they still are not extremely convincing, especially the large ensembles.

Thanks for you comments. smile



I‘m not sure yet. The new dedicated sections such as Seattle Violins, Seattle Violas etc. sound very realistic to me whenever I test them, but the full US Strings ensemble less so. I still have to get into the details and to the waveform level to edit my own voices composed of nothing but the new waveforms to be sure how good they are. The violins, violas etc. seem to be better than those of the Roland SRX 04 and on a similar level as the DSF Symphonic strings.
I also have iSymphonic orchestra for IOS (including some of its expansions), I think this is at least as good as the Montage strings. Maybe I made a mistake buying the MODX in view of tens of thousands of euros spent for medical things in the past few years, and I should have invested in more software libraries to make a real leap in terms of realism of sounds... The FM-X part of the MODX is completely spoilt on me, I don't need it.
I also dislike the MODX/Montage's architecture with its lacking separation between voices and performances. It's just not the workflow I'm used to, I'm not crazy about the touchscreen either, I don't always hit the right field when editing things.
Anyway, I‘m going to prepare comparative versions of my orchestral sequencer files soon.




Crossover, thanks very much for your detailed answer!

I, too, have no need of FM synthesis, but I really like
the MODX's orchestral brass sounds, guitars and
other acoustic instruments.

Software libraries are something I dream about owning, but
the fact I need to buy a dedicated computer, and have to learn the software discourages me. Why don't keyboard manufacturers put those kinds of quality sounds in their products? Without latency, of course.

I'm looking forward to hearing your comparison demos! smile


Edited by Mikem (01/27/19 07:06 PM)
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Mike

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#465315 - 01/27/19 07:14 PM Re: PA4x vs Genos - - - Latest Comparison Video [Re: Crossover]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 917
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By Crossover
I uploaded dedicated Seattle violins waveform demos now, they are very realistic to my ears.



I just heard your demo, and the violins do sound very good, indeed! A realistic, full, lush string section though, is something that I'm still trying to find on keyboards. Any ideas which keyboard has the best (besides Kurzweil)?

Thanks for your demo, and for all the other demos you posted on your channel! I find myself listening to them often! smile
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Mike

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