How many kids today really listen to jazz? Vs rap?

Never heard the "F" Bomb dropped in Love For Sale. Maybe I missed something.

Gary

Looks like DonM's post has suffered a "Tragic Death" ...

What I'm 'just saying' is that I don't paint ALL rap lyrics with one brush. It's when people generalize that bad things happen. Your post would suggest that ALL rap lyrics (and by extension, the people that create them) are vile, vulgar, violent, vicious, and above all, valueless. So yes, I disagree. I don't know how much rap you've listened to, but for those willing to approach it with an open mind, there is a lot of creativity in much of it. It also, in some cases, reflects the environment some of these artists were forced to grow up in. It is a reflection of urban culture, a culture most of us, including me (although I'm Black) are not familiar with. We all know that unfamiliarity breeds distrust, suspicion, and sometimes, extreme bias and negativity.

I'm not a fan of Rap or Hip-Hop but that's a musical preference; I don't hate the people that produce it nor do I think that it's all the same. People see and hear what they want to see and hear, and after a certain age these inherent attitudes are hard to overcome.

So, do I compare Love for Sale to "rap lyrics". Depends. WHICH Rap lyrics? If you mean the ones that demeans and denigrates women? Well, despite the choice of words, BOTH DO! So the question is, are there DEGREES of denigration? Is it ok to denigrate women 'just a little bit', especially if you don't use any 'alphabet' words? I don't know. To me, a word is a word is a word; it's the MESSAGE that's important. So in that sense YES, I do equate Love for Sale with SOME Rap lyrics. As far as using the 'alphabet words' in art, how about the Emmy-winning cable TV shows and Oscar-winning movies that are laced with every conceivable vulgarity? Do they count? Of course the 'typical Rap artist' is not usually prominently featured in this media so I suppose that makes it ok .

I have said many times that I have given up trying to get anyone over 50 to view social issues with an open-minded perspective (note DNJ's response above ) so I'm not sure why I'm writing this but you've always been nice and respectful in the past and I thought I owed you a response.

chas

Thanks for the response Chas. Your posts always reflect wisdom, experience and sound educational background.
However, my opinion remains: if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Chas, seriously, I understand where you stand. As usual you have eloquently made your point. I've been around long enough to know neither of us is going to change the other's mind. Carry on.
Eddie

For years I was unable to appreciate rap. I guess I wasn't open to it. Then in the 90s I heard "Gangsta's Paradise" by Coolio and I heard a new dimension I hadn't heard before. I have since heard other hiphop/rap tracks that have really grabbed my attention. There is something about the dramatic punctuation of rap that really adds power to a message.

It is not the type of music that offends people, it is how man uses that music that offends people.
All music has its place. They called some of the music of my time elevator music. The music did not cause that, it was man that caused it.
John C.

Gee Nigel, what a coincidence. Gangsta's Paradise was also the first 'Rap' song I was able to warm up to. It's a classic and I still like it to this day. I'm just not a big fan of "put your hands in the air, act like you really don't care" type Rap (or HipHop - I'm not really sure what the difference is ). I dislike the fact that in some of the most popular Rap, the best parts of it are samples (usually from some other genre'). I do think that it is foolish not to acknowledge that Rap music is not an integral part of today's music scene and today's society in general. We may not LIKE it and we (as musicians) may never play it, and I, for one, will never enrich the coffers of today's Rap artists through the purchase of their products, but it's still there and widely embraced by the children and grandchildren of those that 'hate' it. But wait, didn't we go through this with Elvis?

Hey, I say 'live and let live'. "For everything there is a season". It took a long time for society to warm up to Picasso (some never have) or musically, Thelonius Monk or Frank Zappa. Give it time, at some point there will be 'Rap Sunday' at early Mass (got to keep those collection plates full somehow ), but I see the BIG explosion being in Tele-Evangalism - I can already picture JayZ in a flowing white robe saying 'put your hands in the air......'.

chas

Rap has been around much longer than people remember. When I was a teen in the "segregated south" Nix Creek flowed into and around parts of town. There was a swimming hole frequented by Blacks and Whites... often at the same time. No problems. I can remember hearing RAP ditties from youngsters and they were pretty graphic. One group would do their best to "out-do" the previous group... and I gained an "education of sorts" about all manner of things... LOL! This was during the WWII era.

Gotta admit, this feminist "take" on old traditional music has turned ugly and is impossibly stupid. Chas, have you ever heard "Love for Sale" played as an instrumental by Dave Brubeck? I faintly remember Martin Denny playing it once (also instrumental) at the International Marketplace in Honolulu years ago. Great song. Thanks for reminding me. ----Dave

You be the judge ....

PS: "Baby It's Cold Outside" offensive?