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#459879 - 10/17/18 11:43 PM Arranger sales
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
Recently, I contacted a major on-line retailer about expanding their line of high end arrangers/modules some of which they do carry. This is a very successful retailer.

This was the response I got.

“The arranger business in the US is really tiny and dwindling down. We’ve looked at it multiple times but haven’t been able to identify any business that we think we could have real success with. We also have had only one or two requests over the years from customers so it’s tough to justify from that point of view.”

Thought I would share.

Also, when I consider the number of new stage pianos and synthesizers brought to market each year compared to arrangers...I’m not sure I could argue the retailers concern.


Edited by guitpic1 (10/17/18 11:47 PM)
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#459883 - 10/18/18 04:03 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: guitpic1]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Yes, I agree that arranger keyboard are declining here in the US. But why are they still popular in other places in this world?

John C

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#459885 - 10/18/18 05:36 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: guitpic1]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Arranger keyboards have their day just like the electronic organs from which they spawned, sales in the USA have always been miniscule compared to the rest of the world, so a drop off won’t really be noticeable.
In Europe, arranger sales are also on the decline, (Just ask any of the dealers) hence a lot of arranger manufactures have left the market, or have released just minor updates to a model and extended replacement of other models. (Usually the TOTL ones)
Asian countries are still fairly balanced.
Eastern countries are still on the rise as when the market was buoyant in the west; it was virtually none existent in the East, so it’s a matter of catch up with new ways (For Eastern players) of doing things.
If you look at what the current generation of music requires, (And even the previous generation) there is virtually nothing in an arranger that has any relevance, so as the later generations die out, so will the arranger just like its forerunner the electronic organ. (Note: there will always be a niche market remaining for it, just like there is for all older types of instruments)

Bill
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#459888 - 10/18/18 05:59 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: guitpic1]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By guitpic1
Recently, I contacted a major on-line retailer about expanding their line of high end arrangers/modules some of which they do carry. This is a very successful retailer.

This was the response I got.

“The arranger business in the US is really tiny and dwindling down. We’ve looked at it multiple times but haven’t been able to identify any business that we think we could have real success with. We also have had only one or two requests over the years from customers so it’s tough to justify from that point of view.”

Thought I would share.

Also, when I consider the number of new stage pianos and synthesizers brought to market each year compared to arrangers...I’m not sure I could argue the retailers concern.



Yep as usual its all about money and making a profit as it should be .....arrangers are becoming dinosaurs sadly..and hanging on the the "Old Wooden Home Organ" scenario.....it's had it's time and I am glad I was a part of it. frown
to many other ways to make music.

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#459889 - 10/18/18 06:24 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: abacus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By abacus
Arranger keyboards have their day just like the electronic organs from which they spawned, sales in the USA have always been miniscule compared to the rest of the world, so a drop off won’t really be noticeable.
In Europe, arranger sales are also on the decline, (Just ask any of the dealers) hence a lot of arranger manufactures have left the market, or have released just minor updates to a model and extended replacement of other models. (Usually the TOTL ones)
Asian countries are still fairly balanced.
Eastern countries are still on the rise as when the market was buoyant in the west; it was virtually none existent in the East, so it’s a matter of catch up with new ways (For Eastern players) of doing things.
If you look at what the current generation of music requires, (And even the previous generation) there is virtually nothing in an arranger that has any relevance, so as the later generations die out, so will the arranger just like its forerunner the electronic organ. (Note: there will always be a niche market remaining for it, just like there is for all older types of instruments)

Bill


Bill I agree,.....using an arranger kb to produce yesterdays music is what it was intended for,...with today's music being created in so many new ways an arranger kb can only do so much, mostly a scratch pad regarding new younger styles of music and can never compete with what we hear today and why should it?. There are many other ways in today's world to create music and people are taking advantage of all the tools available as they should. That doesn't mean you as a player cannot enjoy whatever you choose to play at home or maybe for an audience that enjoys the same kind of music but any gigging musician can definitely see the changes going on and by the constant "Requests" for newer popular music that they hear on the radio which cannot be reproduced by only the lonely arranger keyboard, and you will need other resources to stay in the game today, it's always been that way,..yes it's sad, and yes it's becoming a Bygone Era that most of us still around embrace, but as all things don't last forever you must accept it and move on keeping yourself happy along the way somehow. (sigh)

Great post Bill Thanx

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#459897 - 10/18/18 08:16 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: Dnj]
rphillipchuk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 656
Loc: Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By Dnj


Bill I agree,.....using an arranger kb to produce yesterdays music is what it was intended for,...with today's music being created in so many new ways an arranger kb can only do so much, mostly a scratch pad regarding new younger styles of music and can never compete with what we hear today and why should it?. There are many other ways in today's world to create music and people are taking advantage of all the tools available as they should. That doesn't mean you as a player cannot enjoy whatever you choose to play at home or maybe for an audience that enjoys the same kind of music but any gigging musician can definitely see the changes going on and by the constant "Requests" for newer popular music that they hear on the radio which cannot be reproduced by only the lonely arranger keyboard, and you will need other resources to stay in the game today, it's always been that way,..yes it's sad, and yes it's becoming a Bygone Era that most of us still around embrace, but as all things don't last forever you must accept it and move on keeping yourself happy along the way somehow. (sigh)

Great post Bill Thanx


That was a great article to read..... It explains it perfectly !!!!
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#459899 - 10/18/18 08:36 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: guitpic1]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Good analysis, Bill. At 75, and playing the senior circuit, I figure my Pa3x will see me the rest of the way. What happens beyond that really has no bearing. You live the generation you're handed and the continuum of time will, well, continue. smile


Edited by 124 (10/18/18 08:36 AM)

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#459900 - 10/18/18 08:39 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: Dnj]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Dnj
...with today's music being created in so many new ways an arranger kb can only do so much, mostly a scratch pad regarding new younger styles of music and can never compete with what we hear today


....and yet, whether on TV, in a bar or club or concert stage, the configuration we see 99% of the time will be some combination/variation of guitar, bass, drums, and keyboard (throw in an occasional horn or two). And guess what, for your average musically-challenged audience, an arranger keyboard in the hands of a skilled professional can do a fair job of recreating musically what the average bar band is doing. What's missing, of course, is the visual effect. I'd be willing to bet that if you just grabbed three or four scruffy-looking characters off the street, gave them real (but unplugged) instruments and had them 'fake' the instrument parts (lip sync, 'air guitar', etc.), while the actual music was being played by an arranger, 90% of the audience wouldn't be the wiser. Just make sure you play it (the arranger) 75% louder than usual smile smile.

But yeah, they will always be a niche market. Not because they aren't accepted by audiences, but because they aren't accepted by professional musicians. There will be the deniers (there always are) but it's a fact - and the sales figures show it.

Bottom line, sure Arrangers are a lot of fun (for some) but as a 'gig' instrument, it's hard for an audience to see ONE guy simultaneously playing 8 orchestral parts without thinking "ummm, something's fishy". Older nursing home residents may not mind but everyone else sure seems to. JMO.

chas
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#459907 - 10/18/18 08:48 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: cgiles]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Originally Posted By cgiles
Originally Posted By Dnj
...with today's music being created in so many new ways an arranger kb can only do so much, mostly a scratch pad regarding new younger styles of music and can never compete with what we hear today


....and yet, whether on TV, in a bar or club or concert stage, the configuration we see 99% of the time will be some combination/variation of guitar, bass, drums, and keyboard (throw in an occasional horn or two). And guess what, for your average musically-challenged audience, an arranger keyboard in the hands of a skilled professional can do a fair job of recreating musically what the average bar band is doing. What's missing, of course, is the visual effect. I'd be willing to bet that if you just grabbed three or four scruffy-looking characters off the street, gave them real (but unplugged) instruments and had them 'fake' the instrument parts (lip sync, 'air guitar', etc.), while the actual music was being played by an arranger, 90% of the audience wouldn't be the wiser. Just make sure you play it (the arranger) 75% louder than usual smile smile.

But yeah, they will always be a niche market. Not because they aren't accepted by audiences, but because they aren't accepted by professional musicians. There will be the deniers (there always are) but it's a fact - and the sales figures show it.

Bottom line, sure Arrangers are a lot of fun (for some) but as a 'gig' instrument, it's hard for an audience to see ONE guy simultaneously playing 8 orchestral parts without thinking "ummm, something's fishy". Older nursing home residents may not mind but everyone else sure seems to. JMO.

chas

Agreed. The senior crowd just enjoy the music, as it should be. They're not bothered by how it's produced. I think that goes for significant other segments of the paying customers, too. Bottom line, everyone wants to be happy. They're not sitting there analysing everything.

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#459909 - 10/18/18 09:02 AM Re: Arranger sales [Re: guitpic1]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Many years ago, I was attempting to get a job at a certain venue. I was told there had to be a least two in the "band". I told them no problem.
I had a good friend who almost always came to see me wherever I played. I got out one of my guitars, and he sat on the stage with me, in front of a mic, strumming away, although he didn't know a C from a Q chord. smile He soon started interacting with the audience and announcing songs.
Of course the guitar wasn't plugged in. Everybody loved it. They would even come up and make requests from the "guitar player". Over time I taught him some chords and he actually learned to be a semi-decent guitar player, long after this job ended.
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