SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
You are not logged in. [Log In] Synth Zone » Forums » The Arranger Keyboard Forums » General Arranger Keyboard Forum » Hammered action vs. organ touch
Register    Forum List        Active Topics    Search     Forum Help
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#458689 - 09/26/18 03:45 AM Hammered action vs. organ touch
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
At times I wonder when a real, hammered action, arranger will be produced? One that is portable weight wise. And one that has at least the arranger functions of an arranger such as Genos.

Don’t get me wrong...love my Genos but miss the control I feel when I play hammered(simulated I know) of my DGX 650.

For most of my life, I’ve been an acoustic guitar player and am used to creating dynamics by physical touch.

Thoughts?
_________________________
It’s all about the learning

Top
#458691 - 09/26/18 04:49 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43707
Originally Posted By guitpic1
love my Genos but miss the control I feel when I play hammered(simulated I know) of my DGX 650.
Thoughts?


Might be time for a Nice 88 key controller of your choice
Hammer action and a Ketron SD90 arranger module.. wink



cool2

Top
#458698 - 09/26/18 06:44 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Church organ touch?

Real organ touch is different from the semi weighted keboards in arrangers
Church organ does not have velocity, its either on or off..
You controll the vellocity trough a pedal...

Fun keyboard to remember is kawai mp7..
In organ mode it senses the tone the seccond you touch the key...

But i think you mean semi-weighted versus hammer action?
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

Top
#458699 - 09/26/18 06:45 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5476
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By guitpic1
At times I wonder when a real, hammered action, arranger will be produced? One that is portable weight wise. And one that has at least the arranger functions of an arranger such as Genos.

Don’t get me wrong...love my Genos but miss the control I feel when I play hammered(simulated I know) of my DGX 650.

For most of my life, I’ve been an acoustic guitar player and am used to creating dynamics by physical touch.

Thoughts?


When demand arises a manufacture will come forward; however at present the demand is just not there (Not even for niche manufactures) so don’t expect anything anytime soon. (Plus a quality hammer action keyboard will by its very nature be heavy)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#458700 - 09/26/18 07:33 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: abacus]
rightidea Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/25/17
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By guitpic1
At times I wonder when a real, hammered action, arranger will be produced? One that is portable weight wise. And one that has at least the arranger functions of an arranger such as Genos.

Don’t get me wrong...love my Genos but miss the control I feel when I play hammered(simulated I know) of my DGX 650.

. . .

Thoughts?


So, I'm still new to this forum and new to keyboards. So I have to ask, what's wrong with the DGX650/660? What about the other weighted-action arrangers like the Korg Havian 30 and Casio equivalent?


Edited by rightidea (09/26/18 07:40 AM)
Top
#458709 - 09/26/18 09:59 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: rightidea]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By rightidea
Originally Posted By guitpic1
At times I wonder when a real, hammered action, arranger will be produced? One that is portable weight wise. And one that has at least the arranger functions of an arranger such as Genos.

Don’t get me wrong...love my Genos but miss the control I feel when I play hammered(simulated I know) of my DGX 650.

. . .

Thoughts?


So, I'm still new to this forum and new to keyboards. So I have to ask, what's wrong with the DGX650/660? What about the other weighted-action arrangers like the Korg Havian 30 and Casio equivalent?


For the money, I think the DGX series are excellent...I own one. Just too big and heavy to haul to a gig.
_________________________
It’s all about the learning

Top
#458711 - 09/26/18 10:02 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: Bachus]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By Bachus
Church organ touch?

Real organ touch is different from the semi weighted keboards in arrangers
Church organ does not have velocity, its either on or off..
You controll the vellocity trough a pedal...

Fun keyboard to remember is kawai mp7..
In organ mode it senses the tone the seccond you touch the key...

But i think you mean semi-weighted versus hammer action?


If the term semi-weighted works better, I’m ok with that.

That said, however labeled, there’s a huge difference between the dynamic feel of my DGX 650 and Genos.
_________________________
It’s all about the learning

Top
#458712 - 09/26/18 10:08 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: Dnj]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By guitpic1
love my Genos but miss the control I feel when I play hammered(simulated I know) of my DGX 650.
Thoughts?


Might be time for a Nice 88 key controller of your choice
Hammer action and a Ketron SD90 arranger module.. wink



cool2



Nice.

My guess is I wouldn’t move to a module for gigging. Reason is, to replace my Genos and go to a keyboard controller/module, in addition I would need a VH among other things.
_________________________
It’s all about the learning

Top
#458716 - 09/26/18 11:28 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
zionip Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 65
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By guitpic1

My guess is I wouldn’t move to a module for gigging. Reason is, to replace my Genos and go to a keyboard controller/module, in addition I would need a VH among other things.


Both the Ketron SD40 and SD90 modules have a 3-part vocalizer built-in, with XLR / 1/4-inch microphone input jack, so you do not need to buy an outboard VH.

My Ketron SD90 module (8 lb) / Casio Privia PX560M 88-key hammer action digital stage piano (26 lb) setup just needs a MIDI cable, a sustain pedal, and a keyboard stand with adjustable width of the second tier like the US$105 Double Piano Keyboard and Laptop Stand by Griffin (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004THB8OW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

You can go with a single-tier keyboard stand, with a laptop stand behind the keyboard to hold the module above the keyboard.

The K&M single-tier baby Spider Pro keyboard stand with its matching laptop rest looks the best but on the expensive side.


Thanks,
Paul
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Ketron SD90, Korg Kronos 2 88, Korg PA1000, Casio Privia PX560

Top
#458717 - 09/26/18 11:37 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: zionip]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
Tx. Good info. Wonder what the SD90 runs $$$?
_________________________
It’s all about the learning

Top
#458718 - 09/26/18 11:46 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
zionip Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 65
Loc: TX
Special discounted price, from Frank at AudioWorks CT, when first launched, was $2799.

Thanks,
Paul
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Ketron SD90, Korg Kronos 2 88, Korg PA1000, Casio Privia PX560

Top
#458720 - 09/26/18 12:14 PM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Can you attach a mic boom to that Griffin stand?
_________________________
DonM

Top
#458722 - 09/26/18 01:02 PM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: DonM]
zionip Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 65
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By DonM
Can you attach a mic boom to that Griffin stand?


Hi Don,

There is no official mic boom attachment accessory for that Griffin stand.

However, we can always use generic microphone clamp to clamp a mic boom arm or goose-neck to the keyboard stand such as this On-Stage TM03 table microphone clamp for grips between 0.625" and 1.625":
On-Stage TM03 Table Microphone Clamp

I measured the thickness of the double brace back bar of the Griffin stand (for second tier support) and it is within range of the above mic clamp.


Thanks,
Paul
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Ketron SD90, Korg Kronos 2 88, Korg PA1000, Casio Privia PX560

Top
#458723 - 09/26/18 01:06 PM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Thanks! May consider one...don't REALLY need one. smile
_________________________
DonM

Top
#458724 - 09/26/18 01:26 PM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: zionip]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By zionip
Originally Posted By DonM
Can you attach a mic boom to that Griffin stand?


Hi Don,

There is no official mic boom attachment accessory for that Griffin stand.

However, we can always use generic microphone clamp to clamp a mic boom arm or goose-neck to the keyboard stand such as this On-Stage TM03 table microphone clamp for grips between 0.625" and 1.625":
On-Stage TM03 Table Microphone Clamp

I measured the thickness of the double brace back bar of the Griffin stand (for second tier support) and it is within range of the above mic clamp.


Thanks,
Paul


I used that one shortly..
Bad quallity
Had my upper keyboard drop on the lower while playing it..
My quckk reaction prevented damage to the kronos..
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

Top
#458730 - 09/26/18 02:04 PM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Thanks, but I already decided against it. I love the old A-frame double tier stands and have misplaced the one for 76-note kb, but I'll find it. I think.
_________________________
DonM

Top
#458732 - 09/26/18 02:50 PM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: Bachus]
zionip Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 65
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By Bachus

I used that one shortly..
Bad quallity
Had my upper keyboard drop on the lower while playing it..
My quckk reaction prevented damage to the kronos..


Hi Bachus,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I also read some negative reviews on this keyboard & laptop stand before I ordered it. The one that I received through Amazon has very reasonably good construction, very solid and stable when all the screws are tighten. The front legs can swing in and out any time for deeper or wider lower tier keyboard. Maybe they improved their product quality over time. I noticed that the second tier supports have 2 thumb screws below, on each side. If these thumb screws are not well tighten, the upper keyboard could fall.

Currently I use the Griffin 2-Tier KB & laptop stand for V-Console for Genos, so far so good for home studio setup.


One big advantage of this KB & laptop stand is ample leg and foot space. I put a 13-note Roland PK5 MIDI bass pedal, 2 piano style sustain pedals, and a volume pedal under the stand, and there is still available space.

Thanks,
Paul
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Ketron SD90, Korg Kronos 2 88, Korg PA1000, Casio Privia PX560

Top
#458751 - 09/26/18 10:43 PM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: zionip]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By zionip
Originally Posted By Bachus

I used that one shortly..
Bad quallity
Had my upper keyboard drop on the lower while playing it..
My quckk reaction prevented damage to the kronos..


Hi Bachus,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I also read some negative reviews on this keyboard & laptop stand before I ordered it. The one that I received through Amazon has very reasonably good construction, very solid and stable when all the screws are tighten. The front legs can swing in and out any time for deeper or wider lower tier keyboard. Maybe they improved their product quality over time. I noticed that the second tier supports have 2 thumb screws below, on each side. If these thumb screws are not well tighten, the upper keyboard could fall.

Currently I use the Griffin 2-Tier KB & laptop stand for V-Console for Genos, so far so good for home studio setup.


One big advantage of this KB & laptop stand is ample leg and foot space. I put a 13-note Roland PK5 MIDI bass pedal, 2 piano style sustain pedals, and a volume pedal under the stand, and there is still available space.

Thanks,
Paul


Paul, itw was the welding/solding that just broke off .. there is aome part on the lower end plate where the upper stand gets connected to the lower.. where the whole weight of the upper keyboard rests on the welding/solding.. that broke off

The lower tale part however indeed rocks and is very spacious... i currently use a k&m table stand which yields the same amount of place under the keyboards..


Looks like you also replaced the px 560?


Edited by Bachus (09/26/18 10:44 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

Top
#458753 - 09/27/18 12:12 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: Bachus]
zionip Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 65
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By Bachus

Looks like you also replaced the px 560?


Yes, I returned the PX560M to pair with the Ketron SD90 module, which is more picky on MIDI timing. My 18-year-old Yamaha S80 88-key synth works fine with the VConsole setup but has some occasional stuck MIDI notes when used with the SD90.

Thanks,
Paul
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Ketron SD90, Korg Kronos 2 88, Korg PA1000, Casio Privia PX560

Top
#458758 - 09/27/18 06:18 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
This is a good read about different actions and their history

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A//www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansicht/von-hammermechanik-bis-synthesizer-tastatur.html

Its translated from German, but still a good read.
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

Top
#458783 - 09/27/18 11:16 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: guitpic1]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 878
Loc: North Texas, USA
Paul, just to clarify...
You're saying the SD90 is more picky about MIDI timing than ??
And that the PX560 is better as a controller than your old Yamaha S80, correct?

Top
#458787 - 09/27/18 11:43 AM Re: Hammered action vs. organ touch [Re: TedS]
zionip Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 65
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By TedS
Paul, just to clarify...
You're saying the SD90 is more picky about MIDI timing than ??
And that the PX560 is better as a controller than your old Yamaha S80, correct?


Yes. I should have clarified that the Ketron SD90 (direct MIDI connected with the Yamaha S80) is pickier than software arranger program like vArranger 1.18.04, and arranger related software like V-Console 2.1.4 for Genos (through irig 2 MIDI interface, midiplus 8x8 USB 3.0 MIDI interface) running on Windows 10 laptop, and VST programs such as MainStage 3.3.2 on MacBook Pro (through the MIDI interface of Behringer U-PHORIA UMC404HD) connected with the Yamaha S80.

The old Yamaha S80 occasionally have stuck MIDI notes with Ketron SD90 module, whereas the Casio PX560M has no such problem, both similarly directly connected to SD90 module through SD90's MIDI 2 in port.

However, the old Yamaha S80 works fine with vArranger, V-Console for Genos on Windows, and MainStage 3 on Mac OS X without any stuck MIDI notes.

Thanks,
Paul
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Ketron SD90, Korg Kronos 2 88, Korg PA1000, Casio Privia PX560

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Admin, Diki, Kerry 
Board Rules · Mark all threads read
Contact Us · Synth Zone · Top



Help keep Synth Zone Online