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#455195 - 07/25/18 08:59 AM Possible Genos problem...?
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703


confused1

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#455197 - 07/25/18 09:36 AM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Dnj


confused1


No, its a feature on the Genos as Yamaha forgot to implement SSS seamless sound switching as they did in the Montage, seems they still think arranger players don’t need high end professional features.

Same goes for all other Yamaha arrangers.
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#455210 - 07/25/18 02:15 PM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Donny, this has been the same since the advent of the PSR-2000. However, for me, it was never a problem. If you notice, the player is selecting voices from registrations, and it appears that he may have his sustain pedal held down, which would cause the sound/voice to carry over into the next one selected from a registration. This does not happen if you select the voice directly from the onboard user area, which is the way I did this most of the time. Same holds true if the voice is selected via the OTS setting when a variation is changed - no problem.

I guess this could be fixed with a software upgrade, but for the most part, it has never been a deal breaker for anyone contemplating purchasing a Yamaha Arranger Keyboard.

Gary cool
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#455212 - 07/25/18 02:29 PM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By travlin'easy
Donny, this has been the same since the advent of the PSR-2000. However, for me, it was never a problem. If you notice, the player is selecting voices from registrations, and it appears that he may have his sustain pedal held down, which would cause the sound/voice to carry over into the next one selected from a registration. This does not happen if you select the voice directly from the onboard user area, which is the way I did this most of the time. Same holds true if the voice is selected via the OTS setting when a variation is changed - no problem.

I guess this could be fixed with a software upgrade, but for the most part, it has never been a deal breaker for anyone contemplating purchasing a Yamaha Arranger Keyboard.

Gary cool


Gary I never encountered this either on all my Yamaha arrangers...
but I never played a genos as of yet.

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#455220 - 07/25/18 03:10 PM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Donny, this usually occurs when playing and holding down the left chord while switching voices with right hand registrations. You really have to work hard at it during a performance to cause a problem. wink

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#455239 - 07/26/18 03:54 AM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
Stephenm52 Offline
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Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
My thought, yes if I go out of my way I can create that problem but to date I've not found it to be an issue at gigs.

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#455243 - 07/26/18 04:26 AM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Stephenm52]
guitpic1 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
Not a problem for me. Never encountered this issue.
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#455244 - 07/26/18 05:07 AM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Stephenm52]
Jerryghr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 1497
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By Stephenm52
My thought, yes if I go out of my way I can create that problem but to date I've not found it to be an issue at gigs.



I never had this problem. It can be avoided with the playing technique.

This fellow found a glitch, and went out of his way to magnify it.

Regards,

Jerryghr

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#455258 - 07/26/18 03:09 PM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
MacAllcock Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1221
Loc: Preston, Lancashire, England
Change settings whilst holding notes and you will get this sort of thing and always have.

The Montage seamless switching behaviour is very impressive but the way it works is extremely hard to achieve in an arranger because of the way it works, which I think is this - based on an over The shoulder view of this being demoed so I might be completely wrong!

The Montage runs permanently in a performance mode where up to 16 layers of sound can be played simultaneously to form a single voice. That makes a hugely dense sound but as each layer is good enough for a decent sound on its own you rarely need to use that many layers to get a rich and complex voice. What the seamless crossfade does is fade down one voice which is using up to 8 layers and fade up another voice which is already loaded into the other 8 layers not currently in use. So there's no effect or voice changing going on during the cross fade and thus no glitches.

Crafty....
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#455259 - 07/26/18 03:46 PM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
The problem you usually hear even with voice reserve.... are insert effects that are held over to the new sound..
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#455263 - 07/26/18 05:02 PM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Yep, that's precisely what happens, Fran.

All the best,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#455264 - 07/26/18 11:42 PM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: MacAllcock]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By MacAllcock
Change settings whilst holding notes and you will get this sort of thing and always have.

The Montage seamless switching behaviour is very impressive but the way it works is extremely hard to achieve in an arranger because of the way it works, which I think is this - based on an over The shoulder view of this being demoed so I might be completely wrong!

The Montage runs permanently in a performance mode where up to 16 layers of sound can be played simultaneously to form a single voice. That makes a hugely dense sound but as each layer is good enough for a decent sound on its own you rarely need to use that many layers to get a rich and complex voice. What the seamless crossfade does is fade down one voice which is using up to 8 layers and fade up another voice which is already loaded into the other 8 layers not currently in use. So there's no effect or voice changing going on during the cross fade and thus no glitches.

Crafty....


The kronos from korg also has patch remain, same as seamless sound switching... works for all 16 sounds and all 12 insert dsp’s, amd not just 8... now thats impressive.

Also the pa4x solves this particular thing much better then the Genos... when i am back home (currently out of town for a long weekmd) i will make a video of it..
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#455265 - 07/27/18 01:16 AM Re: Possible Genos problem...? [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5347
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Seamless change/play came out in the 80s when digital and sampling started to make inroads and it is surprising that in 2018 (30 years later) there are still instruments that don’t have it. (NOTE: Pure analogue instruments by their very nature do not have seamless play, but there is no reason why digital sampling instruments should not have it)
The first time I came across it for my own use was in 1985 when I built my Wersi Alpha organ, (The DX range were the first digital organs from Wersi) and it was great as you could change from a string sound (Which always have a fairly long release) to a new voice and the string release would carry on until it came to its natural end, plus it was great for an ending as you could hold a solo note (For example) select another voice and play the rest of the chord with your other fingers with the new voice while the solo voice carried on.

Bill
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Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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