I've thoroughly enjoyed every keyboard I've owned - every single one of them. What technology provided for me was incredibly realistic instrument sounds, for which in turn, provided me with the inspiration to learn more and play better. Not only did I want to learn more songs and chord structures, but I also wanted to explore every aspect of the keyboard's features. More often than not I would spend 3 to 6 months with each new keyboard before putting it in use on stage. That to me was what technology provided.

All the best,

Gary

Gary, just for the sake of discussion:
You have clearly either missed the point of my post OR (and most likely) chosen to deflect by mounting an offense/defense against a completely different issue (one that is more likely to be supported by other forum members).



This is not about how much you enjoy a gadget; I ENJOY playing with my drone....for about 15 minutes. This is more about prioritizing the art form (MUSIC) over the technology.



I find it hard to believe that any ARRANGER KEYBOARD is going to inspire ANYONE to PLAY BETTER. For the best players, a love of music is what inspired them to play better.



And which features on an arranger keyboard gives you a better understanding of chord structures?



....compared to the 10-15 years before the average professional pianist or violinist considers themselves ready for a professional (as in FOR PAY) performance.



OR, one could view it as a way to avoid the long and tedious years of practice and dedication necessary to make a living as a professional musician.

I understand that my post may come across as somewhat "preachy", but as I stated previously, it was purely to present a different point of view on the ever recurring topic of technology 'gear-lust' as an approach to making us better musicians. I'm just saying that technology MAY not be the problem. In the words of our POST-master general, 'just sayin'.

chas

I have always considered the arranger a true instrument. In the sense that it must be learned, practiced with, and explored fully. Yes, it is different from learning a horn, or guitar or even piano, but nevertheless one must learn to play it and being familiar and using the technology is a part of it.
I can play trumpet, organ, guitar, bass and drums, to various levels, but still consider the arranger the most fun and the most challenging to play.
I fully understand the point Chas is making, and I agree, but one shouldn't need to defend using an arranger on an arranger forum, or using the optimum technology for your needs or desires!

I think an arranger keyboard is a chameleon, and can only be defined (in the moment) by HOW it is being used and by WHOM. As with most instruments, traditional or electronic, they are going to sound better in the hands of a professional than an amateur. As Abacus so often says, it's the 'easy-play' features that relegates it (in the minds of most people) to the status of a 'home' instrument, and in many cases, is marketed as such. They are usually the least featured or displayed instrument in most music stores and, feature wise, the least understood by music store salesmen.

If you're looking for a triangle or a cowbell (the musical kind), I'm sure you can find a 'cheapo' or a 'professional' model (with the corresponding disparity in price ). I'm not sure what that has to do with anything but I'm sure I was about to make some kind of point ....eh, old age.

But Don is right, you shouldn't have to defend using an arranger, not only on an arranger forum but on ANY forum. What I was attempting to address was the concept that more and better technology (and the never-ending lust for it) is the way to improve our musical prowess. Also, the trend towards prioritizing the technology over the music.

There is no question that in some musical situations, an arranger keyboard is the absolute best tool for the job. To paraphrase Capt. Russ, it's only when it's used as a CRUTCH (instead of a tool) that it's stature and status among instruments is diminished.

chas

Russ knows some stuff!

Chas, I think YOU have misunderstood what I posted, but as you have stated many times, age has a way of interfering with things.

Now, I can play a guitar, and did so for many years and made side money performing in honky-tonk bars in Baltimore. I also can play a harmonica, and at one time, owned a half dozen very expensive models. I played a mandolin in a country band, then hung it on the wall as a decorative piece and went back to playing a 12 string guitar. I was never good at a trumpet (didn't have the lip for it), and tried to master a fiddle, but never did. Never tried to play a B3, and never really wanted to after watching those bands wrestle those things on to the stage.

For me, when I purchased my very first arranger keyboard, I considered it an instrument, a very complex instrument. I never considered them a crutch or a toy or treated them as such. Throughout the many decades I have played music, I have always striven to improve my playing skills and ability. It made no difference which instrument I was playing at the time. That is my point entirely, Chas.

Gary (The old fart!)

I think he meant to say...

We don’t have the perfect can do all and everything instrument yet...
Thats not a thing of salesnumbers, but a thing of design choices... [/quote]


That is only relative. In a nutshell: If you were to include all outstanding aspects of the Genos, The PA4X and the SD9 you would have a keyboard with little left to be desired imho....

regards
John [/quote]

Which means that after that...
companies need to become innovative again and find new things that people want..

And i was more thinking along the lines of all the tools of Genos, Montage, Motif and CP1/4...

Looking for a "No wedge-driving zone"..can anyone point me in the right direction?