One thing that is very noticeable in arranger performances; you rarely hear jazz/exotic/rootless/inverted/revoiced/11th-13th/dim-aug 7-9th/etc. chords. Without these variations and depending on the genre' (but especially jazz), it is hard to make an arranger performance sound either authentic or professional. This is not a knock on the musicianship of the arranger player, but more an acknowledgement of the unpredictability of how a given arranger will respond to being presented with these non-standard chord variations. In some cases, arrangers can be set up to respond a certain way regardless to the 'root', but that feature is pretty much restricted to common/standard fingering (voicing). So......how to get around this. Simple (in some cases ); play the desired chords MANUALLY over a very simple, but otherwise appropiate (and complimentary) arrangement. Sometimes it can be as simple as just adding the 1 or 2 missing notes. The downside is that you may not always get the BASS note(s) you want (provided by the arranger). I'm not sure how the A.I. used in chord recognition in arrangers would or could handle this (which is why playing with live musicians is so much more rewarding and why you probably won't see arrangers used much in the more complex musical forms such as jazz).

Obviously, the above is only my take on it but I would love to hear other opinions on it (but hopefully not from a defensive posture).

chas

yep have to agree with you especially when most are playing one finger or three finger chords...
arranger kb chord recognition certainly has it's limitations..

Some years ago Scott Yee began a campaign to have rootless chords recognized and I think the big companies do now have this capability. I haven't tried it. I only know 3 1/2 chords and they all have roots.

Of course Don is being modest. He does EXACTLY what I propose, which is, not to pick totally unrealistic, super complex, over-arranged, styles to begin with, and then PLAY IN the missing pieces. He usually does this with piano, organ, or (really good) guitar simulations, and so we tend not to focus too much on the arranger portion of the arrangement. Sadly, most do just the opposite, that is, RELY on the arranger to 'do all the work'. So what (in my opinion) is a GOOD arranger player? One that makes the arrangement NOT sound like AUTO-accompaniment. So the goal, to me, would be to sound NOT as PERFECT as possible but as LIVE as possible. If you wonder why I don't give a shout-out to those who choose to play 'organ style' (comp and LH bass), it's because that basically defeats the purpose of using an arranger in the first place (sorta'). Noting that these are only MY opinions and that there are many others, I turn it back over to the only opinion that really counts, YOURS.

chas

exactly, we are "automatic arranger keyboard operators" you push a few keys the computer delivers the music accordingly to match the chords...add a few top notes sing a bit, and your in business.
no surprises there..

Check out Scott Yee's post on this thread.
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/144614/1/Chords_and_Accomp

Hope Scott doing OK. Haven't seen him here for years.
If look to his last post at SZ, it was back in april 2014

I exchanged emails with Scott a few days ago. He is another field but still playing music some as well. He seems to be doing well. I invited him to stop by here and say hello.

Thanks a lot for the info Don.
Good to know he is fine and doing well.

does he have a genos yet ?

No. At least he didn't mention it. I would strongly doubt it since he isn't working full time at music.

My Korg live or in sequence mode handles sus4, and two other chords that make jazz tunes come alive for me are b9ths and #9ths. Of course Dim, Aug, and chords like Cm7b5 and such are no problem. I can get by without 11ths, 13ths etc with sequenced tunes on an arranger.

good to hear Boo where ya gigging these days?

I spent about two hours today trying different setttings on my BK9 for a proposed gig. Its a two hour opener with a guitar player. Opening for a band at the Bluffton Beer and Bar'Bque sunset party. I hit the track mute button on the BK9 and that shuts off all the Arranger sounds except Bass/Drums. Then expierimentsed with full keyboard Piano. Reading both hands the arranger not only followed me but came up with some intricate chord interpretations. #9s, b11ths, chord/bass, etc. So the answer is yes our Arrangers can do this stuff but we have to modify our playing from splitting the keyboard and holding simple chords with out LH.

But Bill, isn't that the way most arranger players use their arrangers? Don't know if all arrangers respond to your proposed method the way your BK9 does, but even if they all did, wouldn't you have to be a fairly accomplished pianist to pull this off? Also, wouldn't it depend on how you voiced the chords (just curious, how do you know what "intricate chord interpretations" are going on if all you hear is the bass pattern?). Also, that approach would cause you to lose all the other voices in the style (arrangement). Maybe okay if you're playing with a band but probably not acceptable to most OMB players. Might be a GREAT approach for multi-track recording, though.

chas