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#446149 - 02/08/18 08:04 AM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Dnj
In other words even bad players that get paid are pros!... Something is wrong..


No, not everyone that gets payed qualifies as a professional. a professional gets payed for doing something he is good at.
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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#446153 - 02/08/18 09:04 AM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: Bachus]
sparky589 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 1463
Loc: NJ
My dad, music reading mandolin player professionally taught, always called himself a "professional amateur"..he could play with anybody but rarely did for money in his day..I like that name..

As to arranger vs workstation, I think first of left hand usage to differentiate. Being an accordion player first, I use the limited left hand triggering functions an arranger has, not full piano style left hand (most) workstation users are. Then the OMB versus sideman utility. Styles vs no styles..Distinct differences designed toward different end users that keep the two separate and required alternate options. Can you imagine one model vehicle from each car company with same options for all?

Of course there is marketing and re-naming..today's SUV / yesterday's station wagon..

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The older I get, the better I was..

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#446168 - 02/08/18 11:40 AM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: cgiles]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By cgiles
Originally Posted By travlin'easy
How about one of you folks providing us with YOUR definition of a Pro Player.

My definition is simple, someone that plays for a fee.


Gary, with all due respect, that is the weakest definition of a professional I've ever heard. To me, a 'professional' is defined by a combination of TRAINING, COMPETENCE, AND EXPERIENCE.

chas


You suppose this definition of professional applies to a professional ‘lady of the night’? Some call themselves professional.

😉

Sorry, couldn’t pass it up.

Look up the definition of professional in the dictionary.
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It’s all about the learning

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#446174 - 02/08/18 12:32 PM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: Nigel]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15575
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Chas, that's the best you could come up with? How about:

A professional is a member of a profession or any person who earns their living from a specified professional activity. The term also describes the standards of education and training that prepare members of the profession with the particular knowledge and skills necessary to perform their specific role within that profession. In addition, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct, enshrining rigorous ethical and moral obligations.[1] Professional standards of practice and ethics for a particular field are typically agreed upon and maintained through widely recognized professional associations, such as the IEEE.[2] Some definitions of "professional" limit this term to those professions that serve some important aspect of public interest [3] and the general good of society.[4][5]

In some cultures, the term is used as shorthand to describe a particular social stratum of well-educated workers who enjoy considerable work autonomy and who are commonly engaged in creative and intellectually challenging work. (From Wikipedia)

How about this one:


[pruh-fesh-uh-nl]

adjective
1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain:
a professional builder.
2.
of, relating to, or connected with a profession :
professional studies.
3.
appropriate to a profession :
professional objectivity.
4.
engaged in one of the learned professions :
A lawyer is a professional person.
5.
following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime:
a professional golfer.
6.
making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”.
7.
undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain:
professional baseball.
noun
10.
a person who belongs to one of the professions, especially one of the learned professions.
11.
a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs:
a golf professional.
12.
an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.
13.
a person who is expert at his or her work:
You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

(From Dictionary.com)

Now, I as I said earlier, I know a lot of pro players, three of which were Peabody trained, two that have big bands and write their own scores, and several that could play with any symphony and play as directed without having second thoughts. I considered Joe Ayala a pro player and while he preferred playing a grand piano, his income was generated playing an arranger keyboard. Helmut Lict can play just about any instrument that has keys, and loves playing the grand piano, but he generates the bulk of his income playing an arranger keyboard. Helmut was trained professionally in Berlin, Germany. Jerry Burns, currently retired, is a Peabody trained pianist. He was in the US Army Band, and leaving the Army went to work for the Zim Zemeral Orchestra for three decades playing an arranger keyboard. Jerry is a pro player. The list is endless.

My entire point about professional players, is that they will and do purchase arranger keyboards - and do not look down their noses at arranger keyboards, or arranger keyboard players. None of the pro players that I know, personally, prefer a synth over an arranger, especially when it comes to making a living on stage.

As for me, I'm just a retired, hack entertainer - not a musician. However, everyone considered me a pro entertainer, and I managed to make a few hundred dollars in the business. I had no formal musical training, learned what I know on my own, school of hard knocks! smile Not everyone in this business that has been successful was a trained musician. Classic example: Irving Berlin. Was he a pro? You betcha! There are lots of Irving Berlins out there - I'm just not among them.

Sorry for the rant,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#446175 - 02/08/18 12:33 PM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: Nigel]
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
I have been playing since I was 5 years old and my first job was when I was 12. I have made my living playing music ever since and I studied privately and with different tutors. I am a full fledged pro player in every respect and I never ever judged a player by the instrument they played. My pet peeve is It's not very pro when talking about someone's keyboard or instrument they are playing. I like a keyboard with built in speakers because I don't have to use monitors when playing on a theater stage or be at the mercy of some knot head that happens to be running a sound system that night. I know my balances are right when I feed a line to the main foh speakers and can turn my speakers up or down so I can hear myself. I also play some jobs in very small rooms and I don't have to bring speakers in to entertain. Some players who have never played or really ever heard an arranger keyboard think they are not pro have no idea what they are talking about. A motl model sometimes is a better tool for the job at hand. That does not mean that it's not "PRO".
Sorry for the rant. This is just my view.

MEL
_________________________
KORG PA1000, KORG PA900, 2 BOSE S1 PROS, 2 BOSE L1 COMPACTS, YAMAHA STAGEPAS 500, ROLAND VP7

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#446176 - 02/08/18 12:47 PM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: Nigel]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Well, I was "nobody-trained". I went once to Berlin. Wisconsin, that is. Also Paris, Texas. Played music in both places actually. Knew just enough to get by. Still getting by.
smile
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DonM

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#446177 - 02/08/18 12:53 PM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: Nigel]
organgrinder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 347
Loc: ft. lauderdale, florida
Don
If I looked up Pro in the dictionary your picture should be there.

MEL
_________________________
KORG PA1000, KORG PA900, 2 BOSE S1 PROS, 2 BOSE L1 COMPACTS, YAMAHA STAGEPAS 500, ROLAND VP7

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#446180 - 02/08/18 01:10 PM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: organgrinder]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Originally Posted By organgrinder
Don
If I looked up Pro in the dictionary your picture should be there.

MEL

Oh Mel, you just say the sweetest things! smile smile
Seriously, thank you. Playing music has kept me from having to do a real job for many years.
_________________________
DonM

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#446184 - 02/08/18 01:47 PM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: DonM]
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4374
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By DonM

....Playing music has kept me from having to do a real job for many years.


To have the hobby as work is a real blessing. Far too few is lucky like that.
If entertainment for the people is not concidered as a real job, what is it then?
It's sure enough quite hard work for those who take it seriously. And when take it seriously, you're a real Pro.
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Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#446192 - 02/08/18 02:39 PM Re: Yamaha Montage at NAMM 2018 [Re: Nigel]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15575
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
smile
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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