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#444524 - 01/11/18 11:47 AM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: Torch]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5179
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Sorry Tony, will do. But I DID say "If (emphasis on IF) MY post is what you are referring to as 'going SOUTH'......." implying that if NOT, well.....

Hey, you're still one of my favorite folks here. Misunderstandings are one of the weaknesses of the 'net' (written word).

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#444525 - 01/11/18 11:51 AM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: Torch]
Mark79100 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: USA
You know, another member said the same thing I’m going to say. I come on here once in a while during the day to get away from the negativity of everyday life. And, bam, there it is all over again on the Synthzone.

But, DO think about it.....if everyone was born the same way, why are there relatively few professional Caucasian basket ball players, when was the last time you saw a Caucasian heavyweight boxing champion, or a Caucasian blues musician who really knows how to sing the blues, or a Caucasian Motown group that made it big in that industry?

For the record, Torch didn’t speak out of line and neither did Tony. There are no apologies that have to be made to anybody about anything. It was a healthy conversation that I was enjoying up to a point.

When Torch quoted “My former accordion teacher (Contino's cousin) a top notch Jazz organist/accordionist once said about Black musicians; they are either good or bad, nothing in between.” If I had to guess, it would be.....those who are “good” are those who have been oppressed in the past and turned to music while those who are “bad” are others that didn’t get into music but followed new-found, previously unavailable academic opportunities.

It was a remark, that’s all. We all see remarks differently. In most cases, there are no “annoying” remarks. It’s how we choose to perceive based on where we’re coming from.

So why did I write this out? Because it’s one of those stress-filled days again for me. I needed a break. I thought I’d turn to my favorite subject: music and my favorite (otherwise relaxing) site: the Synthzone and what do I find….more stress. Talk about “going South”…..this post has to be a prime example.

Let’s leave the “non-musical” discussion alone, shall we, before Nigel closes down the topic. And, please, can we skip the "backlash" to my post here. I just needed to get this out of my system. I don't want it to be the catalyst for more "off-topic" discussion.

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#444526 - 01/11/18 11:59 AM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: sparky589]
Mark79100 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By sparky589
That's how I am with my Petosa. It only gets used on specific gigs. Very heavy too...even sitting down.


Sparky.....I've got to envy you. I didn't know you had a Petosa. They are top of the line if I'm correct. If I owned a Petosa, I would REALLY never let that out of my sight. I'd even take it into the shower with me!

It feels good to be talking about the accordion. People poo-poo it because it doesn't look fashionable and it doesn't do what a synthesizer does. But.....the one thing an accordion does that the synthesizer DOESN'T do is give you freedom to express your emotions via the bellows. Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages.

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#444528 - 01/11/18 12:17 PM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: cgiles]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 12099
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By cgiles
Sorry Tony, will do. But I DID say "If (emphasis on IF) MY post is what you are referring to as 'going SOUTH'......." implying that if NOT, well.....

Hey, you're still one of my favorite folks here. Misunderstandings are one of the weaknesses of the 'net' (written word).

chas



Apology accepted ...
wink
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t. cool

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#444560 - 01/11/18 11:52 PM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: cgiles]
Torch Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 562
First of all, I did not feel at all that you were attacking me personally. There was no hint of it whatsoever. Moreover, you made me realize that I should be more careful when posting on a public forum what can be a sensitive issue. I called up my teacher just now and told him about the whole thing. First, he wanted to watch the video. Second, he just chuckled and said to keep him posted. He also added that I can use his name on the forum.

I believe that there is a difference between stereotyping and observing the reality of certain cultural traits a people group or regional people commonly share. Yes, a lot of times it is like walking on thin ice. What makes it even worse is that we are all encapsulated by our own culture. My teacher Johnny and his cousin Dick Contino were born and raised in an Italian community right next to a black neighborhood. Johnny said that black musicians taught him a lot and he played in a black band for a long time. I have known Johnny over 30 years, and when Johnny made that remark, I knew that he was sharing out of his ample experiences– not stereo-typing. However, on a public forum I should have “polished” it up, or varnished it to the effect that my teacher who has been exposed to a lot of black musicians said he noticed that many of them are either good or bad and very few mediocre instead of a definitive, “They are either good or bad, and nothing in between.”

By the way, I wish you had quoted one whole paragraph of mine, in which I mentioned a mutual friend of my teacher and mine; Peter a black minister who was a Hollywood recording artist. I mentioned the exact same comment to Peter. I thought that way my quote in its entirety was a little less bad…. I know you didn’t mean to take my quote out of the context.

A few years back, I told Johnny that I wanted to learn black gospel music. He laughed and said that I should move to the black neighborhood and live there for a while. A lot of truth to that. He is talking about total immersion. Cross-cultural immersion or a musical immersion. Then he introduced Peter to me; Peter “a guy who plays the wrong note and makes it sound good” according to Johnny. Once again, a crude expression by Johnny but it so captures the essence of it in such simple words. Doesn’t Jazz or black gospel music involve a lot of the right use of the “wrong” note?

The theory of America as a melting pot has been out. After that, they talked about America as a salad bowl where each ingredient is distinctively still there and yet in harmony with others. I want us to celebrate the differences we have. Differences challenge our own assumptions, too I think that’s why Byron said a person who knows only one culture doesn’t know culture. I think we can talk about and celebrate (even laugh about) the differences without stereo-typing. Yesterday, when I played my digital accordion room to room in a new, upscale retirement center, the staff members would give the ethnic background of each resident to me. There were German, Swedish, Irish, Greek, Japanese, and etc.. Then I would play ethnic tunes. People love it. When I was playing a traditional Japanese tune, I heard the staff members saying to each other, “Look, their faces (the Japanese couple), their expressions… Then we came to a gentleman. I saw him counting with his fingers trying to figure out his multi-ethnic backgrounds, perhaps. In the end, he said, "I don't know. I am just an American." We all laughed and at the same time it gave me an opportunity to play American tunes in a meaningful way. Being afraid to celebrate the differences and calling it stereo-typing Is ironically another form of stereo-typing in my view. Well, enough of that for now.

On a difference note, thanks for the opportunity to interact with you directly. One of these days I am going to pick a fight with you about the accordion! LOL. Mind you there are a lot of us here on the forum! We will “squeeze” you until you say, “Uncle” and pick up a squeezebox yourself.” Oops, some accordion players don’t like the word squeezebox.

[A humor based on race stereotype given by my black minister/musician friend of mine when we were eating watermelon together is deleted.]

Chris
Originally Posted By cgiles
Originally Posted By Torch

My former accordion teacher (Contino's cousin) a top notch Jazz organist/accordionist once said about Black musicians; they are either good or bad, nothing in between.


You should have taken that opportunity to tell him what a ridiculous statement that is. That is precisely how stereotypes are born. When it comes to music (and most things), Blacks are no different from any other group; there are good musicians, bad musicians and a whole lot in between. Perpetuating these myths serves no good purpose and only causes people to see groups other than their own in a different (and usually negative) light. I've heard the same kind of drivel (right here on THIS board) about Black athletes; that their success is the result of God-given talent', as though they just 'showed up' one day, fresh from the ghetto, donned a NFL jersey and ran for 200 yards. One does not become a world-class athlete without thousands of hours of work and tremendous personal sacrifice in order to hone their craft. This is true no matter the color of the athlete.

The problem with statements like that is that, in most cases, they sound innocent to the person saying (or repeating) them. Some even think they're complimentary. THEY'RE NOT. It's the bedrock that bigotry and prejudice is built upon. It's how we subtly brainwash our children and pass on these beliefs from generation to generation. I think it's way past time for it to stop.

Torch, I'm sure you didn't mean anything mean or malicious by referencing your teacher's comment....but that's PRECISELY my point. It's like the current political climate where we've learned to 'normalize' rude behavior, name-calling, and all the things we used to abhor. I'm not SUPER-sensitive but felt compelled to speak up here (for all the reasons I listed). I really hope you don't take this as a personal attack because it's not. I'm just trying to bring awareness to a situation that affects me personally.

chas


Edited by Torch (01/12/18 02:13 PM)
_________________________
"You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free."
John 8:32

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#444561 - 01/12/18 12:06 AM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: tony mads usa]
Torch Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 562
Originally Posted By tony mads usa
Originally Posted By Torch
I thought some of you might enjoy listening to some great chord progressions and playing. I've never heard Mary Had A Little Lamb like this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svxEUOfkRbY




Torch, I thoroughly enjoyed this video ... I just think that if he was trying to help the young man to "Gospelize" a song, some additional instruction as to what he was playing would have been helpful ...
BTW ... with the band in NY we would do "A Word From Our Sponsor" and sing the Schaeffer beer commercial when ever we played the "Beer Barrel Polka" ...
Tony, I am glad to hear you enjoyed the video as I did. My teacher called me earlier tonight and said he enjoyed it too. One of the things my teacher mentioned was how the player was using triplets on just about every beat. He was right. that is very "typical" of black gospel music. In fact, I watched a demo by a black gospel musician on Youtube. He explained that blues and black gospel music are very very similar, except for the heavy use of triplets in gospel music. I want to be careful here, but in the olden days, the music that some of these musicians played in a bar the night before was the same song they were playing Sunday morning in church, I read. Just different lyrics.

By the way, the player in the video had a website where he had teaching material. Maybe that's why he didn't go over in detail.
_________________________
"You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free."
John 8:32

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#444562 - 01/12/18 01:28 AM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: Mark79100]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6058
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Originally Posted By Mark79100
Let’s leave the “non-musical” discussion alone, shall we, before Nigel closes down the topic.


I thought about removing this thread but then thinking about it doing that would just be like simply hiding the issue under the rug. I decided that chas's comments deserve to be preserved. I agree with him completely. I am sure there was no intentional offense meant but that is actually the problem that chas is referring to. People make statements without realizing they are crossing the line. It has gone on far too long and it is time to stop it now. I am not mad at anyone but just ask that you all think about what you are posting means to everyone who reads it. Humor based on racial stereotypes is never acceptable.

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#444568 - 01/12/18 04:50 AM Re: The Best Rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb [Re: Torch]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5179
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I don't want to belabor this or prolong the topic but I just felt a need to thank Nigel for his understanding and support. But I also wanted to thank, no, actually PRAISE, Chris (Torch) for NOT becoming defensive about my comments and showing great sensitivity and understanding to my view of the situation. Heck, I even forgive his misspelling of 'steak' smile and ending what was a beautifully articulated post with "humor based on racial stereotypes". Ahhh, old habits are soooo hard to break smile. Anyway, the point he and I and Nigel was trying to make was that Synthzone is much more than an 'ol boys club and is, in fact, a beautifully diverse international forum where all are invited to participate (within some liberal but well-defined guidelines). We could not have a more fair or impartial moderator (who probably should be ambassador to the UN smile ) and his message, as I read it, is that we all need to be aware of how what we post may affect the feelings of others. Sounds simple enough to me.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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