My Genos arrived today. Here is what I know so far.

1. Every single one of my gig styles from previous yamaha keyboards play ok.
2. Some of my styles were replaced with Genos factory styles and sound good.
3. I tried some registrations from other yamaha owners and they also worked ok.
4. The touch screen works just fine and is easy to read and see.
5. The Touch screen menu is very intuitive.
6. I did not buy the speakers and am using good headphones.
7. Many of the onboard styles sound very familiar - same intros and voices etc..
8. I tried onboard styles from PSR3000, T1, T2, T3, T4, and T5. They all played ok.

The fact is, I could have taken the Genos out of the box, inserted my thumb drive with all my gig setups on it and played a gig right on the spot. So, if anyone was concerned about backward compatibility - don't worry about it.

There are some negatives:
1. The sliders and knobs jump in level when changed during live play - not a good
thing.
2. The RH sound is not as well balanced with the styles on the Genos as they were
on previous Yamaha keyboards and will probably need tweaking down the line.

I will post more on this thread tomorrow as I learn more about the Genos.

Deane

Deane,

Thanks for the feedback, how about the Playlist feature let us know how it works especially with registrations.

Deane,
The thing with the sliders is hard to avoid...unless the kbd has powered sliders that get set to the current location automatically when a sound etc is loaded...then when you move them you are moving them from their current value...without powered sliders when you first touch them the values will jump to the current value of the current location of the slider.
No way around it.

Deane,
How good are the sounds...especially all the orchestral stuff...but everything??
That's what I really care most about.

I will be going through the manual page by page tomorrow and doing performing all the steps it describes. That to me is the only way to provide a fair and honest answer to questions.

I do not use registrations and never have but I have many that I downloaded and will give them a go.

I have also never used the Yamaha Music Finder - I simply setup my gigs with songstyles located in folders such as 1940s etc..

I'll try tomorrow to get to these things and post my findings.

As for sound - so far I have not gotten far enough into it to comment.

Deane

On the Motif, the sliders were not motorized but the slider will not work until you get to the current value. For example... the slider is all the way up... 127. But the current value is 64. Between 65-127 nothing would happen. Once you hit 64, the slider would start working from there. I wonder if there is a user parameter you could change. I also wonder what their reasoning is if it does jump.

1, the sliders and knobs should have been the same as on the cheepr montage, limitless encoders for the knobs and both with lights.. There should be a setting to change their behaviour .. On any pro keyboard, you can set them up in 3 ways..
a) as they are with your Genos now
b) where you have to move the slider or knob to the current vallue, and it picks up from there.. (which should work quite well with the small screen above them)
c) Dynamic.. example you slider is at 30% and the value is at 64... moving it upwards gives you 65 to 127 and moving down gives you 63 to 0.. it feels a little awkward as the operation is not linear anymore.. but when you get used to it it works quite well, i use this on the kronos.
Please tell me if you can find this setting somewhere, if not, i will add it to the wishlist on the psr forum...This one is very important.


2) part of this is personal prefference.


Glad you could so easilly switch, and everything works out perfectly, i think this will be a real assurance for many giggers.

But how is the sound quallity compared to the Tyros 5?

Bachus,
I did not have the Tyros 5 long enough to answer that question. I am using headphones right now and the sound is very good. Is it better than the T5 - I don't know. I am upgrading from the Tyros 4 and there is a difference.

I did experiment last night with changing drum kits and that can make a big difference in the style. I installed the semi-perm thumb drive with all my gig setups on it and will report back later about it.

So far the Genos is a lot faster than the T4 and the screen works great. Startup time has been improved and styles load very fast.

I am looking for a way to establish volume settings for style parts for each style and then being able to save that setup within the style. I suspect I will have to do that within a registration.

Deane

I really hope the sliders are like the pro instruments as said...I call it catchup mode where they dont do anything until current value id reached....I think that's best for me anyhow....
The question is...is that a option on Genos????

Same question here, its not in the early version of the refference manual..

Dean you were doing so great wit the SD7....do you think the genos will replace it on stage or not...?

No Donny, the Ketron SD7 remains my go to rig.
I’ll use the Genos on special holiday gigs.
Deane

Ok Deane keep us posted..thanx

Ok, just got back from my first gig with the Genos and WOW!. You really need to hear the Genos with a first rate speaker system - a very big difference in overall sound. I used a single Bose L1 Compact for the gig. We shot about an hour of vides with the sound recorded with the camera. I will edit them tonight and shorten the total movie to no more than 15 minutes. This is a live gig and unfortunately there is a lot of background noise, but that is how it goes on live gigs. I'll post the youtube link tomorrow in this thread.

Also, the keyboard is noticeably lighter than the SD7 and the Tyros 4 and was very easy to transport. The screen works great for gigs. One thing, the music is from the 1940's on this gig. I do not DJ or do EDM type stuff - just simple arranger playing.
Also, there were no tweaks and I used mostly T4 styles for this gig.

Deane


So Dean...how does the Genos stack up against your other arrangers?

Deane, Thanks for the feedback.........no complaints on this end on hearing 40s music.

Jingleman,
My go to keyboard is my Ketron SD7. I just sold my Tyros 4 when I knew the Genos was on it's way to me. If someone is upgrading from a Tyros 3 or Tyros 4 they are going to be very happy with the Genos. I don't know enough about the Tyros 5 to comment. This has to be put into perspective. I have no use for EDM technology. I have never used midi files or MP3 on gigs and don't see a time when I will. So, my interest lies in how well the Genos perfoms as a simple arranger keyboard and it does that extremely well. Also, since using my Ketron SD7 I have been more interested in tweaking styles and that technology is now included on the Genos and is simple to use.

Soundwise, those with Ketron hands on experience will understand when I say I have found NO OTHER KEYBOARD that comes close to matching Ketron's realistic sounds and rhythms.
I believe the Genos drums have been improved but still do not come close to what the SD7 offers.

I am very pleased with the Genos and have zero regrets about purchasing it. I will use the Genos for special holiday gigs and that is exactly why I upgraded from the Tyros 4.

Deane

Thanks Dean...good luck and keep us posted on your experience with the Genos.

Yes, Deane, looking forward to anything you post, since I play mainly the older styles, like you. However, if I spring for the Genos, having just sold my T5, it’s because of the improved sound quality and upgrades of the older-type styles. I’ve sat through, now, many of the early Genos demos of pounding bass drum and weird sounds----scrapes, grunts, car crash sounds, and what-not, I guess, representing contemporary music styles. I can just imagine how that would go over with the 50 to 80-year-old dinner crowd I play for---in a very quiet atmosphere. I’d be run out of the place for sure. I’m ready to hear some good demos of music from the 1930’s through the 1970’s.

+1 on getting some demos that is music I like....Soon please!
40's, 50's 60' and some modern as well...

In reality how much better do you really thing the genos sounds above T4 or T5?

I don't know how much better the Genos sounds above the T4 or T5 but Deane is a credible guy, I never expected to hear the positive comment he made.

Isnt that a personal prefference?

You can only decide that for yourself, after playing them side by side for a reasoable time..

Tahts why i have allways sticked to feature comparissons, and even they are very personal, everyone has its own wants and needs..

I am having quite some discussiions over on psr tutorial with people that domt seem to understand that other people use their arrangers in a different way then they do..

Videos Removed.

Deane

Great song choice. You played two of my favorite songs, Deep Purple and All the Way. There have been many great jazz interpretations of those tunes, which is a testament to their versatility and enduring beauty. I can't comment on the comparison of the three arrangers except to say that they all sound like TOTL arrangers and all three could 'do the job' with this type of gig. I think it's mostly a matter of personal preference on the part of the PLAYER, not the audience. JMO.

chas

Ditto!

I like the Ketron SD-7 the best. It sounds so authentic to my ear. Everything sounds so balanced.

I'll agree with that SD7 definitely sounds more realistic...

Thanx for all the demos Dean enjoy!

Deane,

Thanks for the video update. Enjoyed the performance, the picture quality was very good.

What camera are you using to record the performance?

Regards,

Jerryghr

Tx Deane. It appears each keyboard was played through a different PA?

Based on those videos, I would rate the keyboards overall sound:

(1) Ketron SD7
(2). PA4X
(3). Genos

Same PA- Bose L1 Compact.

Deane

yes my choices also in that order..

I closed my eyes and could not pick which one was which . They all sounded great sonically .

I added even more songs with Genos styles if anyone is interested.
I will add more as time goes along stay in touch.
I am going through the factory styles to find those I would
actually use.

https://app.box.com/s/aae6t7mxvdqv5tkjkguxn7y4nhcst9a6

Deane

Love the steel(Hawaiian)guitar. Yamaha has that down.

Are the buttons still loud click as on T-5??
Or did they go with soft touch buttons??

Lee,
I have not noticed button noise when used.
Deane

Dean they look like tyros big square buttons correct?

The Tyros used a mictoswitch that makes a pretty loud click noise...I sure hope the Genos is different??? It's obvious on Tyros?????

Bottom line how much different does Genos sound vs T4, T5 specifically.....
that's what many are shaking their head about?.....have you asked yourself is it worth the change up at that price or skip it this time around and wait for the next models to appear somewhere down the line?,
....not every release is a winner as we have seen with many manufacturers kbs truout the years,......
lets face it today with arranger sound so good in the past few years its gonna be harder and harder to impress imo.

enjoy playing every day..

Like with smart phones, computers and tablets they are in a market maturation stage. As you wrote, it's harder and harder to impress.

I've had 2 phone conversations with owners of Genos, both had Tyros 5s and Pa4x. Both find the Genos improved in a big way, one still has a Pa4x and tells me he likes somethings about the 4x that the Genos doesn't have a vice versa.

I agree, Donny. Especially from the audience's point of view where 99% really don't care if its a Sweet Soprano or a legacy or a GM sax. They're just not concerned about that sort of thing. So, in effect, it all becomes navel-gazing on our part. As long as you're putting out a good entertaining product, that's all that really matters in the end.

Agreed and that good product casn be done with so many kbs and a good player who knows what hes doing when performing.......all we mostly read is talk bs actual playing music.......go figure..

Hi Donny,
I think you are making a very good point. Not having a Tyros 5 I can't comment about the difference in sound. But, it is noticeably a big sound
improvement from my Tyros 4. I would not be surprised if some Tyros 5 owners are not as happy as those with T3s and T4s will be.

That said, there are some additional features on the Genos not found in the Tyros line and that should help. Donny, it still does not match up to my Ketron SD7 for sound reality. But that is ok because I will use the Genos for
special holiday gigs because of all the keyboards I have owned I have not found any of them offered styles that match up with the music we play on those holidays.

My "first gig" video is not really a good sound example because I used only the styles from my Tyros 4 without changing any voices. I just wanted to let people see the Genos in action.

Deane

Deane thanx for the reply,......I think with some imagination you can certainly use the SD7 on holidays with using factory styles adding some enhancements with your sound choices like adding a glockenspeil bells to your lead sounds etc..,.....after all most xmas styles are slow foxtrots, a few waltzes, & some shuffle styles anyway.....

Ok, lets talk buttons, first. When Yamaha switched from the Tyros1 and PSR style buttons it was because many, many people complained about button failures. I, personally, knew players that pushed the buttons so hard they destroyed the contacts in less than a month when performing with their Tyros 2 and PSR-3000 keyboards.

Yamaha then changed their design to bubble switched with rubber covers. By and large, they held up well and continue to hold up in the PSR series. My S-950 switches are bubble switches with semi-hard buttons over the top of the bubble, however, the big complaint then became the switches were too small, so Yamaha responded with larger, positive snap switches that could take a beating from the heavy handed players, and had a light built into the switch pad so you knew when it was selected, instead of a small LED light just above the selected switch.

Now the complaints were that the switch was too loud, so they softened the click of the micro-switch, made the indicator lights a bit brighter, but kept the same size format. Apparently, Yamaha listens, and for the most part, responds to reasonable requests.

Now, I listened to and watched several of Deane's videos. Deane is an excellent player and because of this, he tends to keep very busy in the Dallas area performing the senior circuit. However, what Deane played were Tyros4 styles loaded into the Genos, using many of his Tyros4 registrations. While the keyboard sounded pretty darned good, to me, it sounded more like a Tyros4 than a Genos. I base this on the difference I heard between his performances and some of the Genos demos I listened to on the PSR-Tutorial site.

Now, lets look at Holiday styles - all holiday styles. When it comes to Christmas, which was always a very, very busy season for most of us, this is where Yamaha excels over all other brands. Sure, most Christmas songs are either waltzes, marches or swings, with an occasional ballad thrown in. So, if you play your own intro and ending, then any style in the aforementioned category will suffice if it fits.

Yamaha, and some others, have created many dedicated styles just for Christmas. Additionally, there are dozens of song specific Yamaha styles that were created over the years just for that holiday period, which around here, lasts the entire month of December. I personally have about 50 of them on file, and most were outstanding, though some were a bit unorthodox, such as the Regae Silent Night and a similar one for Rudolph, though the audiences loved them. Even had a great rock style for Santa Claus Is Coming To Town, which always went over big.

There are other holidays to consider as well, some of which were very popular such as Saint Patrick's Day, which was often booked two years in advance. And, that holiday lasted much of the entire week, at least from a party standpoint. Again, waltzes, marches and some ballads were acceptable, but when you fired up with a song specific style, again, Yamaha was miles ahead of the competition.

When I was working and actively seeking out those private, holiday parties, I used to send out a card that was titled "A Dozen Good Reasons To Celebrate." I then listed a dozen holidays from my calendar, and within a few days, booked every one of them solid. As DNJ always says "If you have the goods..." Well, I had em!

Don Mason once said, "The biggest mistake people make with their new arranger keyboards is they try to make it sound like the keyboard they replaced it with" He was right on the money with his statement, and for the most part, I too was guilty of this until I got the PSR-3000. At that point, I started from scratch, went through each and every song that I performed, sat down at the keyboard and went through the various style categories and selected an appropriate style from the new keyboard. Sure, this takes a lot of time, and for the most part, it appears that the I gotta have it now crowd is not going to invest that much time into their new keyboards. However, if I were 10 years younger (67), and still in relatively good health, Frank would have my order for a new Genos. And, it would be two to three months before it would go on stage - not the next day after it was received. Sure, I would transfer the MFD, then go through it and edit all the styles that were not picked up and replace them as needed. The only registrations I would transfer were those that used third party style files that were song specific styles that I would have used regardless of the updates. Those that used onboard styles would likely be left behind on the old keyboard - don't need them anymore because I can quickly and very easily create new ones with the new onboard styles that will sound so much better.

Back to your regularly scheduled channel,

Gary

my eyes are tired ...

Well said Gary, as time goes on I will replace the Tyros 4 data with voices and styles from the Genos - but as you said - that takes time - a lot of it.

Deane

But...my question is are the buttons loud on Genos like Tyros?
On soft passages.....not big loud dance music mind you....it ruins the performance to hear those button loud clicks.
Someone that has a Genos or has tried one out...I'm sure know the answer??

Must have been a rainy day in Baltimore ...

Yep!

So...I have a question , is it true that the T-5 styles are NOT in Genos?

Answers to two questions:
1. Yes the buttons are loud - I recheck and sure enough.

2. Yes, some T5 styles are present.

Deane

Deane, did you get my email?

Dan,
I did get your email but can't share the styles just yet.

Deane