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#439047 - 10/14/17 08:53 AM Who IS the typical Arranger player.......
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
....and what do they want in an Arranger keyboard? First of all, (respectfully) Bachus, by his own admission, is not your typical Arranger player, either home OR Pro, so although HIS wishlist is long, creative, all-encompassing, and well thought out, it sounds far more like a STUDIO WORKSTATION GEEK SQUAD list than the wishlist of the average Arranger player. Donny is 100% correct in saying that most arranger players have little or no interest in sound editing (they buy the instrument because they LIKE the sounds that are already there), DAW integration, etc. As Bill (Abacus) has pointed out repeatedly (and I do mean REPEATEDLY smile ), most arranger buyers are 'home players' who mainly just want to 'open the box, plug it in, and PLAY). I'm guessing that Yamaha also knows this smile since they've done pretty well so far on just glitz, hype, strategically timed feature releases, and great marketing. Hey, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

Along with Donny's (above) observation, here is another similar one that intrigues me. People get carried away with these professionally produced, flowery, ethreal, exotic DEMO'S, using sounds, layers, combi's, ect. that we would never, ever use in real-life playing (home or gig), and we (well, not me smile ) immediately put it on the top of our must-have list, sell our hardly-explored previous model, deny our wives any frivolous purchases for the next six months, and then rush off to make our annual donation to the Yamaha heirs trust fund. The truth is, as Uncle Dave pointed out, most of us use about 6-10 voices of the thousands available, 95% of the time. We even choose styles which use the same limited voice pool. I bought a cheap kb controller recently that came with thousands of VST's and VSTi's. Although I had fun listening to them, I realized that I would probably only use about 15 of them; most, I couldn't even imagine a use for. But then, I only paid $149, not $5-6000. But hey, this is America; if you got it, spend it (even if you don't have, charge it smile ).

In the words of one of our esteemed members, "your thoughts?".

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#439050 - 10/14/17 09:01 AM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
Tyrosman5 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/17
Posts: 96
I am a home player and the Genos fits the bill. I have owned a
Tyros 2,4,5, all great and satisfying keyboards. I do not have
use for making my own styles, Yamahas are perfect for my use.
I am along in years (88) and so I am happy with what is in the
board already. More than I need but I want very good voices
and styles and the Genos has them. I am a happy camper. Lloyd


Edited by Tyrosman5 (10/14/17 09:03 AM)

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#439053 - 10/14/17 09:22 AM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Is there a "TYPICAL" arranger player? ... maybe, ... I don't know ...
Personally, I don't KNOW enough about sound editing to really make a difference in the OOTB sounds on my Pa900, so I just leave them alone ... I have edited many of the styles for different songs, adding parts, subtracting parts, changing voices, intros, endings, etc. ...
For MY purposes, I look for good styles and the ability to edit them as I see fit, decent sounds, a good vocal processor, and the ability to access what I need 'on the fly' ...

While I may only use a very small percentage of the sounds most of the time, it is nice to have certain voices for that particular time when that voice better fits the song - like a 'Honky-Tonk' piano instead of a 'Grand Piano' ...
Just My Thoughts ...

Just another thought ... An architect designs a house, and a builder builds it ... one person may buy the house, move their furniture in, and live in it and be perfectly happy, while another person may buy that house, change lighting fixtures, wall colors, etc. etc. to 'make it their own' ... same with KBs ...


Edited by tony mads usa (10/14/17 09:31 AM)
Edit Reason: Add another thought
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#439055 - 10/14/17 09:39 AM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I'm probably not a typical player, definitely not a musician, but I have edited dozens of sounds/voices, used many of the onboard sounds and styles, modified lots of styles to suit the song I'm performing and loved all the features that are available. I reality, Yamaha and other manufacturers have created something that appeals to a very diverse group, musicians, entertainers, home players, song writers, and more. They tend to provide options for each and every one of those subgroups of owners, which makes their boards so appealing to each of them. The beauty is, there are no restrictions - you can pretty much create anything your heart desires, and do it well. So, the quick answer to your question is, there is NO typical player, IMO.

Gary cool
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#439058 - 10/14/17 10:02 AM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
W Tracy Parnell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 759
Loc: NY
If I don't like a sound, I find another. Plenty to choose from on today's arrangers. I would say that style editing is used more frequently by the "average" arranger player than sound editing.
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Komplete Kontrol S61/Korg PA900/JBL 308P/Focusrite Clarett 2Pre/Band in a Box/Reaper/EZdrummer 3

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#439065 - 10/14/17 12:00 PM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Originally Posted By cgiles
....and what do they want in an Arranger keyboard? First of all, (respectfully) Bachus, by his own admission, is not your typical Arranger player, either home OR Pro, so although HIS wishlist is long, creative, all-encompassing, and well thought out, it sounds far more like a STUDIO WORKSTATION GEEK SQUAD list than the wishlist of the average Arranger player. Donny is 100% correct in saying that most arranger players have little or no interest in sound editing (they buy the instrument because they LIKE the sounds that are already there), DAW integration, etc. As Bill (Abacus) has pointed out repeatedly (and I do mean REPEATEDLY smile ), most arranger buyers are 'home players' who mainly just want to 'open the box, plug it in, and PLAY). I'm guessing that Yamaha also knows this smile since they've done pretty well so far on just glitz, hype, strategically timed feature releases, and great marketing. Hey, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

Along with Donny's (above) observation, here is another similar one that intrigues me. People get carried away with these professionally produced, flowery, ethreal, exotic DEMO'S, using sounds, layers, combi's, ect. that we would never, ever use in real-life playing (home or gig), and we (well, not me smile ) immediately put it on the top of our must-have list, sell our hardly-explored previous model, deny our wives any frivolous purchases for the next six months, and then rush off to make our annual donation to the Yamaha heirs trust fund. The truth is, as Uncle Dave pointed out, most of us use about 6-10 voices of the thousands available, 95% of the time. We even choose styles which use the same limited voice pool. I bought a cheap kb controller recently that came with thousands of VST's and VSTi's. Although I had fun listening to them, I realized that I would probably only use about 15 of them; most, I couldn't even imagine a use for. But then, I only paid $149, not $5-6000. But hey, this is America; if you got it, spend it (even if you don't have, charge it smile ).

In the words of one of our esteemed members, "your thoughts?".

chas


Very good points Chas.
I also agree with the others on arrangers.
However, don't forget that the US market is very small compared to the European and Asian market.
The Demos are played for everyone around the world.
I know quite a few people in Europe that are actually use all the layered sounds presented in the demos.
Take Bachus for example. He is from Holland and enjoyed the ensemble feature in the T5.
There are quite a few people in Germany actually sharing different setting for the ensemble feature.
Again, these demos are made for a much larger audience than us here in the US. wink
We have certainly typical arranger players in the US, but it always amazes me how people from other countries and backgrounds use these arrangers.
And the manufactures need to keep all this in mind.
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#439066 - 10/14/17 12:06 PM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I'm probably not typical. But one of those who don't use more than a handful or two of sounds. It amazes me that someone might need MORE than the several hundred on board.
Styles, that's different. I have most everything I need, but new ones can add freshness. Years ago I built almost everything I used from scratch. It's not necessary any more, but I do change drums, style part instruments, volumes, etc. quite often.
My arranger is a tool, which I use to make money and inflate my ego. If I were just playing at home, I probably wouldn't play at all, except maybe strum a guitar.
I have forgotten the question, so will go quietly now. smile
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DonM

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#439067 - 10/14/17 12:33 PM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: DonM]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By DonM
I'm probably not typical.


That's right Don, you're not; neither is Gary, Donny, Uncle Dave, MusicForYourDay, Russ, and one or two others. You're all 'Pro's' and only a handful of Pro's use arranger kb's (IN THE AMERICAN MARKET). The rest of the week-end warrior types (those who gig for fun and 'discretionary income), I consider semi-pro. Even among the home players, there are exceptions to the 'plug and play' gang; that would be the more tech-oriented adventurous types, such as Bachus. I would also exclude them from the 'typical' classification. So, bottom line, it's ALL THE REST that I would consider 'typical'. So, in other words, if you don't fall into the 'typical' category, your opinions, though interesting, DON'T COUNT smile smile smile.

Hope you get the SPIRIT of what I'm trying to say here.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#439068 - 10/14/17 12:37 PM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Originally Posted By cgiles
Originally Posted By DonM
I'm probably not typical.


That's right Don, you're not; neither is Gary, Donny, Uncle Dave, MusicForYourDay, Russ, and one or two others. You're all 'Pro's' and only a handful of Pro's use arranger kb's (IN THE AMERICAN MARKET). The rest of the week-end warrior types (those who gig for fun and 'discretionary income), I consider semi-pro. Even among the home players, there are exceptions to the 'plug and play' gang; that would be the more tech-oriented adventurous types, such as Bachus. I would also exclude them from the 'typical' classification. So, bottom line, it's ALL THE REST that I would consider 'typical'. So, in other words, if you don't fall into the 'typical' category, your opinions, though interesting, DON'T COUNT smile smile smile.

Hope you get the SPIRIT of what I'm trying to say here.

chas


Ha, ha, ha
Good luck with that :):):)
The ones that count don't usually post much smile
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#439071 - 10/14/17 01:19 PM Re: Who IS the typical Arranger player....... [Re: cgiles]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I really haven't found an arranger, other than perhaps Ketron, that is set at the factory to sound really good when you turn it on. I wonder why that is? ....
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