I am AMAZED! Had it been a new Tyros, there would have been at least 10 new topics about this. The SD9 is AMAZING, it's out and the only reports I find from new owners are on the Ketron forum. Hard to believe...

As good as it probably is, I am afraid Ketron has more obstacles to gaining acceptance than Yamaha. I hope this will change with this product. As good as AJ is, he has to start with an exceptional bug free keyboard to work his magic on.

It will probably become more obscure when the new Yamaha Genos is released and Pa4x continues to dominate with Os upgrades, ....that said I'm sure the SD9 is a fine arranger KB and I for one look forward to seeing and hearing more about it.

good luck

Henni: I don't know what it is...but it's the same on all Ketron boards. The ensemble voices sound nice...and then this Blatty emeny organ trumpet comes in. You'd think after all these years they would have replaced that sample with something more realistic sounding like Yamaha. To an old trumpet player...it's like fingers on a chalk board. I hope the board does well for them all the same.

Ketron will never enjoy the popularity of the Korg or Yamaha. Bugs
turned off several owners when the SD7 came out. Lack of support by Ketron is another turn off.

Too bad as Ketron has great potential Lloyd

Well, this might Piss off a few readers but here is my take on the Ketron products. First, I own 2 of the Ketron SD7 keyboards and have used them on gigs for over 2 years now. I have read just about all the gripes and complaints from users on the forum and I have come to several conclusions.

My first one is most Arranger players have become really lazy in that they want the keyboard to do everything for them with little effort on there part. I guess that is not a bad thing but what ever happened to putting some effort into what you want to accomplish? Just my opinion.

Second, without a doubt the Ketron products are not meant for the home player or players with limited ability. Chord recognition is an example - play sloppy left hand chords and you get very strange results.

Third, if a Ketron owner has limited knowledge with technology they will not enjoy or like the Ketron Product they own. It helps if an owner understands how an OS works and how resources work together.

Fourth, if an owner truly does not know how or does not have the time or desire to learn how to work with the sounds and styles on his keyboard he will also not enjoy the keyboard. It does take some work and time to get what you want.

Fifth, as one of the above posts mentioned, some unhappy users complained of OS bugs with the SD7. I find this very interesting because with both of my SD7 keyboards I have not run into any of the issues some of these owners have reported. It really makes me wonder what they were trying to do when a problem happened. Perhaps I just have not used some of the SD7 features that these players were using.

All this is what I have learned in my two years of gigging with my SD7s and I truly believe it to be true.

I completely agree with the problems all of us have mentioned about the level of support we get from Ketron. God forbid anything ever happens to AJ because we all would be SOL. I also agree with those who say Ketron is behind the other manufactures in a lot of areas - including OS updates and system improvements. Italy seems not to listen to it's customers at all.

Well, this is my 2 cents worth.

Deane

Sounds good, Deane.....EXCEPT, there isn't any product I can think of, no matter how well made or how desirable, that I'd pay 3-4k for and there was only one guy in the world I could reasonably expect support from. I think the risk factor (product support) is the biggest impediment to sales success. JMO, though.

chas

Chas,
You are absolutely right! I have have thought about that many times and it seems Ketron does not understand how important that is to owners.

Deane

The SD9 might be great...but I'm guessing it's going to be hard to find out.

At one point I was interested in an SD7. $3,800 up front(paid $2,800 for my PA4X...store model)I was told with a possible three month wait.

SD7/SD9'might be great instruments but that's too far a reach for me.

About two years ago, I bought a custom built acoustic....well over $3K. Thing is the builder wanted me to play one of his custom acoustics before buying. Once I did, I bought one.

Guitpic1,
Again this is absolutely right! However, not all the other companies have product in local stores. But is sure would be nice to walk into a store and find TOTL Yamaha, Korg, Ketron, or any other keyboards on display and ready to try out.

Deane

Deane, there are only three places in the US that I am aware of where you can do this. Washington Music in Rockville, Maryland, and our Synthzone members stores in New England and California. Beyond that, most music stores in the US cater to guitar players because that's where they enjoy the highest sales volume and greatest turnover. The local store where I live only carries a few keyboards now, almost exclusively Yamaha and a couple Roland models - that's it! At one time, he had three dozen keyboards in the store, but they just sat there, waiting for a buyer.

I believe that much of this is because online sales are killing the mom and pop stores that we all relied on for our musical instruments in the past. Other than GC, there are very few music stores around anymore. So sad.

Gary

Many people probably didnt evenrealise the sD9 finally arived after more then a year since it was anounced..

I myself will be testing the SD9 next week..
I dont have any intention on buying it..
Maybe if they release a fullfledged module of it in the future..

Actually i think Korg makes the best arranger currently
I think style quallity comes pretty close to ketron..
And the sound engine is much much more advanced

I will report offcourse after my initial experience..



There is another reason why we are not talking about the new SD9
There are no review video's
And there are no extended tutorials of it on Youtube

Its still obvious Ketron does not know how to create hype for their products

I could not have explained this any better. Well thought out and written ... but above all, an un biased report from an end user written below.!!!

In an attempt to rectify the lack of service issues those in the USA are complaining about, could you please outline the specific service issues you've experienced with KETRON and how you suggest these could be resolved - e.g.

* Service Issue:- I needed a new mother board for my SD5 but due to lack of an authorized repair center here in Montana, I had to ship the unit over to AJ for repairs and thus missed out on a job.
* Suggested remedy:- Such can be rectified if KETRON had a service center in XXXXXX.

It will also be nice to list the good services you have received to date on this thread so that people reading have a true sense of what's available and what can be improved upon - else our post may only reflect what is not and leave out what is!

TO KEEP THIS PRODUCTIVE, PLEASE SUGGEST A REMEDY FOR ANY SERVICE ISSUE YOU ARE EXPERIENCING IN THE USA. FOR THOSE OUTSIDE THE USA/CANADA, YOU MAY ALSO CONTRIBUTE AS TO HOW WE (in the USA) CAN BETTER ASSIST YOU, SINCE WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER SERVICE OR LACK OF SERVICE OUTSIDE THE USA!

LET'S KEEP THIS POSITIVE AND CONSTRUCTIVE.

Since you asked...this is what was still happening after owning the SD7 for two months. No remedy was in sight. The right hand would just go "out of tune" with the left hand chords. They kept promising updates but they did not come so I had no choice but to buy something that worked right.
This was recorded live on a job. How embarrassing do you think that was? It happened once or twice a night.
https://app.box.com/s/4a4rvha5zah718ubi3iuqyhnce9gauuw

Good example Don.

This issue was resolved in the first SD7 OS release ... unfortunately, it came a tad late - after you had sold your SD7, but this is a good example indeed - and one we will prevent from happening in the future.

Thanks for contributing to this.

AJ that's all well and good but these major things should all be worked out "Before" release when people are spending mega bucks on a keyboard...with so much stiff competition customers will drift away very quickly...that said you have always been good to me and my needs I'm glad I was close to the "lab" during my ketron days just in case I needed you..

You cant work out all these things before release... its just not possible with software, that runs on dedicated hardware...

If you want software to run flawlesslly it requires thousands of testers.. that report back.. with inhouse testing, you are fully dependant on testing procedures.. and they just cant test it all..

What matters for a product like this is that the company has a fast way to report and to react based on problems reported by users..

But everyone working in the software buiseness knows that internal testing can do only so much.. they will tell you what you wish for is near impossible and incredible expensive and time consuming..



Where Ketron goes wrong is in the way how they where handling this.

to a point bachus, ...but, a major flaw like incorrect chord recognition is a big deal that should be fixed BEFORE RELEASE as Don pointed out..btw have you ever owned a ketron arranger kb like the SD models?

Donny,
are you referring to the SD7 when you mention chord recognition? Again, after two years I have not had that issue either of my two SD7 and I play just about every chord you can think of with 3 or 4 fingers as needed.

There are two OS issues I wish Italy would correct in the future though. One has to do with not being able to save things to a pre-determined folder. The other is how the SD7 registrations deal with the voices in them. If you don't number your USER-VOICES and then add more voices to the folder the Registrations will not pick up the correct voice - it looks for the order of the voice in the folder not the name of the voice.

I think this is being addressed but who knows.

Deane

Dean hi I was referring to Don M post about chord recognition......
"Since you asked...this is what was still happening after owning the SD7 for two months. No remedy was in sight. The right hand would just go "out of tune" with the left hand chords. They kept promising updates but they did not come so I had no choice but to buy something that worked right.
This was recorded live on a job. How embarrassing do you think that was? It happened once or twice a night." Don M

https://app.box.com/s/4a4rvha5zah718ubi3iuqyhnce9gauuw


that said I don't remember having the same problem with my SD7....but there were a few quirks that need to work out AJ did his best to help as always ....glad you SD7s are doing the job for you ...good luck.

Ensoniq was a threat in The 80's and early 90's and they released a beautiful keyboard VFX SD that did everything at the time better than the renowned M1 and Roland Synths & Yamaha DX7....the sequencer killed the competition, the sounds cutting edge for the time.

I bought one and loved it. But it was unreliable on stage because of bad solder in the circuit board. Took them 2 years to fix my board when they finally figured out their error.

Never played a Ketron. But the things I have heard will not allow me to consider this board. Horrible Customer Service is simply a non starter for me. There is no excuse for it period.

I defended my VFX SD cause I was in it 2K. Sorry can't be a guinea pig. So yes no one cares about this board as the reputation of this Company is they don't care.

Everyone whined about the PA4X as I had possibly the first one here. There were glitches but they addressed it.

Sorry people can't buy a product from them.

I would look long and hard at a Rebranding

Steve,

Thanks for chiming in. Could you please list these 'horrible' service issues? This is what we are currently accumulating and trying to see how to get solutions to. Just list as ...
1. xxxx
2. yyy
3. zzz

Then ... for each one, list possible suggestions to fix these issues. This will go a long way.

Thanks,

AJ

AJ,
you are an only person who realy care about Ketron produkt's.But that is not anaf.Manufacturer shuld comunikate with hes costumers and dont nead to ignore as like nobady persons...Cant anderstand whay on Ketron site stay costumer suport with no answer on costumer post's?
We nead manufacturer who stay and care behind hes product and haw time to answer on ewery "sealy" post or question.
SD40 is is a good aranger module,but Style Modeling section dont work properly.Ketron know that and nothing to do about.Cant weight to OS update for years like in Audya model.That crazy thing's must be solvet much faster to setisfije costumer's.Here is how Ketron ignorance lok's like and that is general problem.And on the end:what is about Style compiler program?Do they work someday for ather models to,except Audya? That is realy shame...Defenetly SD 40 is my last Ketron product.

So sorry ,but that is a fact....

I have had the most fantastic service first from ToneWheelDude and next from AJ.

I could not care less about customer support from Ketron Italy. Between these two gentlemen I received everything I needed exactly when I needed it.

I have had my Audya now for eight years. I guess I can speak from personal experience and not just from mere hearsay.

Oh yes, did I mention I am located in South Africa?

AJ....I have not bought a Ketron product and because of the reputation never will....I Google every purchase as do all my clients. I will not be a guinea pig as I was for my Ensoniq.

Rebrand is something that should be looked at long and hard

Wow rebranding?...never would think of that but certainly an option

If you google for problems with a product, any one product, thats what you will find... problems, problems and more problems.. witouth any ballance.

Just google for tyros problems..and you will be surprised what you find

Yes maybe a 3,4,5yr UNLIMITED Warranty would help sales also..
and ease buyers minds

This is the reason I haven't bought an SD 40 yet.

I get that....Synth Zone has been the place that really did it. AJ from what I understand is great....Unfortunately the publicity to the product here takes it completely off my list....

The original OP asked why no thread.....Well he did get a thread out of it....................

Henni,
I think you are absolutely right. So far in 2 years I have not been without almost instant help when I needed it. Most of my needs were based on learning how to use certain features of the SD7. I also agree with your comment about "heresay". My parents taught me, "beware of whom you are listening" Wise people.

Deane

Had an appointment today to test the SD9 at Dera in Holland..

Sadly when i arived he told me they where all sold out..

Hope to find one early next week when i go and visit music store in Köln


The shop owner however asured me everything in the SD9 was an improvement on sd7 and audya... we talked a little about a possible module version.. and we agreed that a module version of the sd9 would be a real asset.. he also confirmed the SD40 selling much better then the sd7..

Check out my mini review of the SD9 pro on :

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/378/ketron-sd9-mini-review

I was at music store in Köln today, europe's biggest music warehouse. they had the SD9 Pro on display. It was there directly under the SD7. The first thing i noticed they where both aproximately the same size. Making the SD9 Pro the smallest high end TOTL arranger keyboard.

Quallity of the Ketron styles was good as allways. Was it much better then my PA4x? I domt think so, only marginally, but then, i love the pa4x styles, only being marginally better says a lot about the SD9 pro style quallity. But where the SD9Pro really shines is edditing styles trough the style moddeling and the huge database of "midi and audio patterns" it really really works well.. just add an EDM beat to an excisting style and there you go.. style moddeling the Ketron way should be part of any TOTL arranger keyboard.

And then when playing a style, and you touch the new pads button it transfers all 4 varriations into the first 4 scenes of the pads feature. So easy, who would think of something like that.I took some time to play around with the new pads feature.. and really loved it .. this for me is the future of arrangers.. something i have been asking for for ages.. sure its just the beginning, but with a few small improvements it will be a dream come true.. for example, currently you loose the lefthand voices when using the new pads feature.

The number of voices for the keyboard is 6.. this is more then any other TOTL keyboard. However, the layout of these voices is somewhat akward if you dont know the audya or sd7. There are 2 lefthand voices, but they are part of the style. There is a righthand sound, which actually consists of 3 voices, but is not easilly accesible for switching voices on and off. On top there is the so called 2nd voice which does have a frontpanel direct acces button. New in the SD9 is the effects section, of 4 effects units for the righthand voice..

Soundquallity of the solo sounds is good to top knotch, however, the sounds are more straightforward then the sounds of the competition(yamaha and korg) there is only a basic synthesis engine and truely multi layered sounds or sounds with many articulations are missing. Its a much more simple engine, but the sample quallity is top, many of the sounds where sampled wet, which allways makes them sound good.


Not having a deep synth engine hurts when playing EDM which Ketron claims to be one of the strong points of the SD9. If you add to that the fact that there are no real arpegio's or typicall things like sidechaining and realtime SoundCC.. then its easy to see that Ketron still has quite some work to do... even tough the new pads feature offers a lot..


All in all, i pkayed for two hours and had a very pleasurable experience. The instrument allways did what i expected it to do, for some things i need to ive into the manuall, but the SD9 performed rock stable even trough i was experiementing with it. I love the touchscreen interface of the SD9 (as well as the SD7) it adds so much nice things.


So where does that leave the SD9? I would say on par with the pa4x.. more arranger friendly then the Tyros5. But compared to the pa4x, the backings and all options and real time controll and easy edditabillity make the SD9 better then the pa4x. However, where it comes to sounds and the sound engine, pa4x is just a tad more advanced. If you add the incredible VH of the Pa4x to the mix, then for many musicians the PA4x might have a small advantage over the SD9. But since i am not a singer, i would rate the SD9 as a direct competitor on equall footing with the pa4x.. in the end however all 3 TOTL arrangers are top knotch choices based on ones preferences.


Personally i still see a future for me and Ketron, if they ever decide to make a module with the full capabilities of the SD9, i might be very interested. A module like this would make a perfect match with any stagepiano, synthworkstation, organ or midi accordeon. Combining the deep sound section of the Kronos (or montage, or nord stage) with the top knotch backings of the SD9 would be a true match. But then they would have to leave atleast all the buttons on the module, and not decimate the interface like on the SD40.

Bachus thank you for the very informative review of the Sd9,....wish we had places like the store you talked about where people could sit for while and try out different keyboards etc, .....I remember those wonderful days here pre internet...all good memories...
appreciate your time and effort in writing your in depth report,

take care,

Donny (with a"Y")

This store is incredible... everything you ever wanted to test out they have on display... with headsets all over the place.. and salesmen that are there to answer questions, but dont interupt your playing..

I visit atleast twice a year, it makes me feel like a little buy in a toystore

Here is a video to make you drool