It's summer time and I've been traveling all over the area which by the way is a big tourist destination all over the shore and sadly after looking at so many acts playing in bars, clubs, pools, hotels, boardwalks, I haven't seen an arranger kb being used by anyone,.....yes DJ's, KJ's, Bands, Duos, Singles, etc, but no arrangers, sadly the writing is on the wall, Nursing homes etc is another story if that's where you want to perform, you can get away with it, .........I'm afraid it's time has come, slowly, but it's inevitable. Times are changing in live music. I'm glad I was a part of it it was a nice ride.

I know you periodically bring this up, Donny. Sometimes I think it's just to get the troops riled up (nothing wrong with an occasional little forum 'dust-up'). But the truth is, you're right on at least one count; in all my years playing in and patronizing clubs (never been much of a bar goer except for gigs), I've NEVER seen an arranger keyboard in a club or bar (or dance, or party, or parade, or carnival, or ....). Since they've been around since the early 80's, I'd say it's unlikely they will ever become prominent in those venues. The thing is, young people don't buy them (or want to be associated with them), and old musicians who MIGHT buy them are past playing the club/bar scene.

I'm guessing younger club patrons would not accept arranger music as it currently exists. The styles is today's arrangers cannot compete with live music or even DJ's playing recordings of live music. Also, you won't see the kind of interaction (with an arranger performance) you see between musician and audience in a live setting. Maybe one day they'll reach that level of authenticity, but not today.

Don't hate the messenger.

chas

I think about this a lot. I too have been traveling a bit on the Golf Coast and through out CA. I went to several venues featuring live music that featured solo acts, and mostly always they have singer/guitar performing without tracks.

I think people have become a bit jaded by the use of technology in music, and when they go out to hear live music, they don't want to hear anything that can be perceived as karaoke. Anyone can do karaoke at home now. I would think your average person who see's a guy playing an arranger keyboard probably just assumes that the keyboardist is playing to pre recorded music, which is commonly thought of as karaoke. If someone aspires to be a professional karaoke singer, they better be exceptionally good, because anyone can sing to tracks at home or at all the clubs that have karaoke nights. Same goes for arranger players, if they are out playing out in public for pay, they have to be very good singers and good players too. They have to be able to entertain. It's a bit harder to have much flash/flair/showmanship playing arranger keyboards. Guitar players can move around, a karaoke singer with a wireless mic can go up to any table in the club. An arranger player has to keep the left hand pretty much still to play chords (that not that entertaining to watch, is it?) An arranger KB player can't move around even like a traditional pianist can because the left hand is a slave to the auto accompaniment.

In general, I think the public wants to see people really playing and an arranger keyboard is perceived as just too cheesy/fake no matter how hip the styles and sounds are.

Just my two cents

I have to disagree.

The work is out there.

Never did a nursing home.

This week my Duo is booked for 2 picnics, a house party, and the weekly restaurant job.

The caterer that did the picnic today asked for our card and is interested in booking us at her restaurant.

Regards,

Jerryghr

For what it's worth...maybe some are overthinking this.

We live in western MN, land of 10,000 lakes...big vacationland here and lots of live music.
Nobody cares if a small duo is using an arranger..most folks in the audience don't have a clue or care how the music is made...they just know whether they like it or not.

Different venues are looking for different types of music be it Karoke, bands, DJ's or whatever.

If arranger days are numbered, why do manufacturers keep producing new models? Is that because there’s an audience out there to enjoy arranger playing, or just for the benefit of buyers, like us? My patrons are basically middle age to senior folks, who seem to want music they recognize and enjoy----not how it’s made or presented to them. To provide a little more variety in my solo routine, I’ve been seriously thinking about moving back toward guitar more, with vocals, using backing tracks created on arrangers. Would the end result be any different than simply playing the arranger straight away?

I dont think anyone will ask for an arranger player specifically... they will ask for a one man entertainer.. does it matter if the Job is done with an arranger keyboard or in another way to them?

Overhere in Holland and Germany there is still quite some one man band acts using arrangers...

the funny thing is that an arranger keyboard for live performing is a bit of a contradiction in itself. People going out, and certainly the younger ones, want to be entertained and could not care less whether it is live, pre-recorded, karaoke or whatever definition you want to attach to it. they DO want the "feast of recognition ". Whether it is Elvis or Beyonce that you are performing, they want to recognise the song and generally ( with the odd exeption ) they prefer the song to be as close to the original as possible. Hence the many SongStyles that in particular Yamaha is famous for.
But an ARRANGER keyboard as the name suggests lends itself uniquely to arranging a song even in a realm beyond your wildest dreams. Sometimes these new arrangements are so far removed from the original that people cannot be bothered. If they recognize the song at all they will probably remark that it is way of base. Personally I have had no problems with that as I rarely perform live, and never with my arranger keyboards.
By contrast I have often endeavoured to firmly uproot the original arrangement of a song, yes at times even beyond recognition. Hence I think that for the time being the arranger keyboard will be around for some time to come but that for live performances it will dwindle into obscurity within the next 10 years. ( though many choirs for instance often have an arranger keyboard, be it that they are often used for their sounds, so as a workstation really, rather than for their styles.
Just my thoughts,

regards,
John

I have a difficult time believing that. If true, then why not just use a $5 MP3 player instead of a $5000 Tyros 5? That's saying that no one cares about the musical talent, prowess, accomplishments, etc. of the performer - that he/she could be playing CD's behind a big curtain ala Wizard of Oz. I, personally, would never want to play for such an audience who, according to your statement, couldn't care less about the performer, as a person or as a musician.

I've read where many of you go to great lengths to make sure the audiences know it's YOU playing; WHY? if it makes no difference. Truth is, they aren't going to believe it's you playing bass, drums, strings, brass, piano, and guitar all at the same time anyway (unless you're an octopus). Of course, an audience's reaction to (the source of the) music is very much dependent upon the venue and the age and sophistication of the audience; for instance, you will NEVER, EVER see an arranger in a true Jazz club if you live to be 200. Same is probably true of any hard-core genre' club, be it Country, Rock, or Blues. The audience will INSIST on real musicians playing real music on real instruments.

Now that's not to say that Arrangers don't have a place in the music world. The 'instant gratification' factor alone is a powerful buying incentive, especially for the marginally skilled (but well-heeled) non-pro home player. It is also well-suited for less demanding audiences such as Nursing homes, particularly for solo entertainers where the emphasis is on SINGING and the arranger is merely an alternative to 'backing tracks'.

So.....will the arranger keyboard fade into oblivion (as predicted by DNJ) as did it's predecessor, the auto-accomp. organ? Probably not, at least not in the immediate future. We tend to base everything on what we see in the AMERICAN market which, surprisingly, is not the only market in the world. It will probably never replace live bands (nor was that probably ever it's purpose) in most venues but will probably continue to remain popular with a small cadre of OMB performers who want to differentiate themselves from their 'backing tracks' counterparts.

Just my .02 cents worth.

chas

Wow, a lot being said here.
The big picture:

1-The arranger player today should be using whatever he needs to do a complete job. Karaoke is needed for many of the songs today. Many of the today songs have uninteresting melodies and without the different fills and original rhythm the song falls short.

2-One Man Band VS a karaoke player. No contest. OMB using an arranger keyboard and Midi Files; with the same talent can do a much better job.

3-OMB Vs a live duo or trio, no contest. But that is like comparing apples and oranges. The price and having more than one talent performing makes it a bad comparison.

4-Organs have lost their popularity. Yet they can do everything an arranger keyboard can do and more. When an organ store demos an organ it normally sounds just like an organ. My point; it is the player that killed the organ popularity not the instrument. The same for arranger keyboards.

About ten years ago an update country club called; they wanted a piano player for their dining room. When I told them I played a keyboard they said no. I said, try me for one night. I turned every band sound in my Kn7000 into pianos and soft guitars. I was at the country club for six years. When they hired me for a party I gave them the rest of the keyboard; Disco, Big Band, Latin ----- they were well pleased.
I believe that if the younger players truly understood the potential of the arranger keyboard they would own one.

John C.