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#421359 - 05/16/16 02:44 PM MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference?
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2202
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Taking another run at learning how to use MIDI files...

I see some sites offering both MIDI files and MP3 files.

What's the difference?

Are there pros/cons related to each?

For you guys who uses these tools regularly, are there a couple websites you'd suggest for me to explore?

I'm interested in mostly classic rock, motown, R&B, etc...

Thanks! smile
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Bill in Dayton

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#421360 - 05/16/16 03:02 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
rosetree
Unregistered


The differences are dramatic:
- a MIDI file consists of bits of midi data, which means that you can make all kinds of changes to it: replace sounds with totally different sounds of your keyboard, make transpose changes, eliminate single notes or complete tracks (e.g. the live tracks you want to play) etc.
- an MP3 file is basically an unchangeable entity (except a few changes like limited tempo and pitch changes, however with quality loss).

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#421361 - 05/16/16 03:07 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Midi files are nothing more than a set of instructions that tell your keyboard or other sound source what to do. They are easily edited, transposed, etc.
There is a more or less accepted format for them, called General Midi, where certain sounds or groups of sounds are assigned to selected channels. For example drums are on 10, and sometimes 9, bass on 2, lead instrument, if any, is on 4 etc. It is not mandatory to use the GM format, but it makes it easier to work with if you have an idea of what sounds will be called up from what channels.
There are also expanded formats such as Yamaha's XG, Korg's GS... that are tailored to work best with their sound banks.
There are lots of better explanations on the internet, but this should give you an idea.
MP3s are compressed recordings of sounds. Some instruments can now transpose them to a degree. They really can't be edited though. The sounds that were originally recorded are what you get! WAV format is where most of them start, and they are compressed by the MP3 format to save space, since WAV files are really large in comparison. If you use a fairly high MP3 rate of compression, say 320, then it's hard for most ears to tell the difference in sound from the original file.
I record most of my performances in WAV format, then, if I wish to share them over the internet, compress them into MP3s. There are lots of free programs to convert them from WAV to MP3. They cannot be converted the other way to regain the original quality, so I always save the original recording in case I want to burn it to CD and get the best quality sound.
Hope this helps.

Edit: I see I cross-posted with Rosetree, but they replies are saying the same thing; I'm just longer-winded! smile


Edited by DonM (05/16/16 03:09 PM)
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#421366 - 05/16/16 04:58 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: DonM]
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
The comments above pretty much explain the difference.
I find that using MIDI files to create a backing track is better than an mp3 because of the editing capabilities, especially when transposing to another key is necessary ... If you transpose an mp3 more than 2 or 3 steps - especially if it has background or harmony vocals in it - you are really going to distort the sound of the vocals ... I will sometimes take a MIDI file, change the instrument voices, drum set, key, tempo, whatever, and then record background vocals through the keyboard ... this produces an mp3 that sounds as I want it to ... OR record the MIDI file to a digital recorder and add more than one vocal track ...

Of course one can always just edit the styles on the KB to create a backing track as well, but that was not the question ...
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#421367 - 05/16/16 05:57 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2202
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Thanks guys...

Can you please recommend some good websites to find midi files?
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Bill in Dayton

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#421369 - 05/16/16 07:01 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
JimboKeys Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/14
Posts: 17
There's lots of sites offering free MIDI files - some of those files are decent (often bootleg copies of purchased files), but a lot (most) of them are pretty bad. I've bought files from a few places, though some of the files for sale are as bad as anything you'll find for free (at least you get to hear samples before you buy, which is a good thing). I've had good luck with songgalaxy.com and a few other places, but my go-to site is yamahamusicsoft.com . You'll likely have to mess with program changes and such for the track to play the way you want on a non-Yamaha keyboard, but that's half the fun. Note that they've recently added a slew of "Premium songs" for more money, but the cheaper versions are actually (IMO) better - the Premium songs have a decidedly European flavor (a nice way of saying schmaltzy polka band sounding (-; )

- Jimbo


Edited by JimboKeys (05/16/16 07:02 PM)

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#421375 - 05/17/16 01:48 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: DonM]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: DonM
Midi files are nothing more than a set of instructions that tell your keyboard or other sound source what to do. They are easily edited, transposed, etc.
There is a more or less accepted format for them, called General Midi, where certain sounds or groups of sounds are assigned to selected channels. For example drums are on 10, and sometimes 9, bass on 2, lead instrument, if any, is on 4 etc. It is not mandatory to use the GM format, but it makes it easier to work with if you have an idea of what sounds will be called up from what channels.
There are also expanded formats such as Yamaha's XG, Korg's GS... that are tailored to work best with their sound banks.
There are lots of better explanations on the internet, but this should give you an idea.
MP3s are compressed recordings of sounds. Some instruments can now transpose them to a degree. They really can't be edited though. The sounds that were originally recorded are what you get! WAV format is where most of them start, and they are compressed by the MP3 format to save space, since WAV files are really large in comparison. If you use a fairly high MP3 rate of compression, say 320, then it's hard for most ears to tell the difference in sound from the original file.
I record most of my performances in WAV format, then, if I wish to share them over the internet, compress them into MP3s. There are lots of free programs to convert them from WAV to MP3. They cannot be converted the other way to regain the original quality, so I always save the original recording in case I want to burn it to CD and get the best quality sound.
Hope this helps.

Edit: I see I cross-posted with Rosetree, but they replies are saying the same thing; I'm just longer-winded! smile


GS is actually a Roland format not Korg. (It’s also the format used in Windows computers to play Midi files)

For storage of songs in original format, convert them to FLAC (ALAC if you use Apple) as like a Zip file this is a lossless format, thus no information is lost, but the file sizes are far smaller. (Plus most players these days can play them back without conversion)

Hope this helps

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#421376 - 05/17/16 01:49 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: Bill in Dayton
Thanks guys...

Can you please recommend some good websites to find midi files?


For Midi files try Midi Spot as they have a large number available.

Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#421383 - 05/17/16 07:26 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bill, check your PM.

Gary
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#421384 - 05/17/16 08:07 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
MacAllcock Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1221
Loc: Preston, Lancashire, England
When playing back midi files on most keyboards you can easily mute tracks to give yourself some space to play in, although personally I've always edited the files beforehand to do this so I don't have to mess about during the performance.

I have to agree that most free midi files on the web are rather poor quality although they can give you a start point. Commercial files are usually hugely better.

Almost all midi files I've downloaded, commercial or not, have IMHO benefited greatly from some personal re-voice / remix / effects tweaking to suit my own kit.
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John Allcock

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#421386 - 05/17/16 08:31 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: abacus]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Originally Posted By: abacus
Originally Posted By: DonM
Midi files are nothing more than a set of instructions that tell your keyboard or other sound source what to do. They are easily edited, transposed, etc.
There is a more or less accepted format for them, called General Midi, where certain sounds or groups of sounds are assigned to selected channels. For example drums are on 10, and sometimes 9, bass on 2, lead instrument, if any, is on 4 etc. It is not mandatory to use the GM format, but it makes it easier to work with if you have an idea of what sounds will be called up from what channels.
There are also expanded formats such as Yamaha's XG, Korg's GS... that are tailored to work best with their sound banks.
There are lots of better explanations on the internet, but this should give you an idea.
MP3s are compressed recordings of sounds. Some instruments can now transpose them to a degree. They really can't be edited though. The sounds that were originally recorded are what you get! WAV format is where most of them start, and they are compressed by the MP3 format to save space, since WAV files are really large in comparison. If you use a fairly high MP3 rate of compression, say 320, then it's hard for most ears to tell the difference in sound from the original file.
I record most of my performances in WAV format, then, if I wish to share them over the internet, compress them into MP3s. There are lots of free programs to convert them from WAV to MP3. They cannot be converted the other way to regain the original quality, so I always save the original recording in case I want to burn it to CD and get the best quality sound.
Hope this helps.

Edit: I see I cross-posted with Rosetree, but they replies are saying the same thing; I'm just longer-winded! smile


GS is actually a Roland format not Korg. (It’s also the format used in Windows computers to play Midi files)

For storage of songs in original format, convert them to FLAC (ALAC if you use Apple) as like a Zip file this is a lossless format, thus no information is lost, but the file sizes are far smaller. (Plus most players these days can play them back without conversion)

Hope this helps

Bill


Thanks Bill. You're right of course.
_________________________
DonM

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#421395 - 05/17/16 05:50 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Bill,
What sound source are you planning to use with the midifiles?
I may have missed it.

Might make a difference on the amount of tweaking required ( if any) to get them sounding great.

The identical file played on various sound sources , sound different.
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Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
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#421396 - 05/17/16 06:55 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
musicforyourday Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 733
Loc: So California, USA
Bill this is a area I can share a lot in i use Midi file all the time I do like style play but I find Midi file offers a better fuller sound if you are acomplished in a instrament ie Piano or guitar it offer you the oppertuinty to play fuller arang while playing you main instrament

now the midi file differ greatly with different keyboards

I find Yamaha the best at playing midi files by a long shot

yamahamusicsoft.com very good site also MIDI Spot as well both the same really
midi spot being my fav here if you use a Tyros or Psr series keyboard they do the best job at lyric and chords and the ever important Transpose button
back in the past Roland G70 did a great job at tume 1000 files woth chords and lyric this will give you freedom from sheet music and i pads ect i support Midi Files over Mp3 any day of the week for the above comments all true .
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#421402 - 05/18/16 12:52 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: rikkisbears]
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2202
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
I'm using a PSR s970...
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Bill in Dayton

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#421412 - 05/18/16 08:02 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
musicforyourday Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 733
Loc: So California, USA
Good unit for what I was talking about the Midi Spot files are the best

a little more money but worth it they do the best job .
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Genos, PSR S970, Fender Tele Amercian Deluxe Cherry sunburst , Cubase Pro 8 ,Yamaha A3M Acoustric ,Taylor 814, Ibenez Artcore Custom Tascam DP 32 Yamaha DXR 10, QSC K-12, K 12 Sub K 8 Sinn 945
2 Fender Expo line units .

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#421428 - 05/18/16 05:33 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Riceroni9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1298
Loc: TX, USA
Hi Bill:

Mason covered the bases pretty well. I have acquired the gear needed for MIDI but never cared for the learning curve. I'd rather record directly into a digital recorder and output the resultant WAV file into the computer, do the edits needed and save the WAV file as well as converting it to an MP3 file.

The arranger allows such a great selection of instruments for the song as well as styles... and volume for each one can be adjusted beforehand. This allows me to use only one track... even though the recorder has multi-track capability. If I don't like the first "take"... I keep recording until it sounds about right.

Whatever works best for you is what you should do.

Regards,

Dave Rice

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#421433 - 05/18/16 09:49 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Bill,
I got a few midifiles a few years back for old old PSR 1500. I 'm pretty sure they are midi spot for Tyros. Tried them on my psrs 950 and they sound really good.
I just got them for the odd song that I couldn't find a style for.
As others have probably mentioned, stick to Yamaha files rather than just general midi.
They'd be better tweaked for your keyboard.
It can become an expensive exercise buying them. Although there's a lot of free ones online, one has to weigh up the pro's and cons of maybe having to edit/tweak freebies vs
getting ones that sound good straight away.

I think the midi spot site has demo's to listen to.
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Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#421469 - 05/19/16 03:59 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
musicforyourday Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 733
Loc: So California, USA
Bill one other very good point about Midi file and Yamaha is that you can asign a jump point ie bridge and chorus up to 4 different one to the midi file why this is important if you do lot of dances like I do how many times in the middle of a song people get up and dance by the time they make it to the dance floor if you are using a mp3 you are screwed and then you got to re start or rewinding ect not good with a Midi file jump point areas in a song all you got to do is press a button and then you are back at a vers or a chorus ect very useful tool Psr and Tyros do this very well and Midi spot file have jump points already programed I find this to be very very useful
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Genos, PSR S970, Fender Tele Amercian Deluxe Cherry sunburst , Cubase Pro 8 ,Yamaha A3M Acoustric ,Taylor 814, Ibenez Artcore Custom Tascam DP 32 Yamaha DXR 10, QSC K-12, K 12 Sub K 8 Sinn 945
2 Fender Expo line units .

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#421470 - 05/19/16 04:19 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I think all the modern arrangers have Markers, as described above. I know Korg, Roland and Yamaha do. I don't remember whether Ketron does, but I think so.
I like the way Roland displays the chords from midi files. Korg has a nice view where you can pick the part for which you want the score to display.
I experimented last week with some CDG files on the Korg. Actually works great if you wanted to do K*****e. Sounds amazing!
smile
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DonM

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#421483 - 05/20/16 07:30 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: DonM]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
LOL

You just couldn't spell it out, could you?
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#421484 - 05/20/16 07:37 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
The "K" word!


Edited by montunoman (05/20/16 07:37 AM)
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#421490 - 05/20/16 09:20 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: DonM]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By: DonM

I experimented last week with some CDG files on the Korg. Actually works great if you wanted to do K*****e. Sounds amazing!
smile


Don, could you tell me where you got those files from? ... as I have posted, I am doing some gigs with a female vocalist who I am trying to get to sing with me backing her on KB, instead of through her 'K' software ... but she REALLY needs to see the lyrics ... If those tracks work on the Pa900 I might be able to hook something up so that they show on her laptop while I am playing the song on the KB ...
Thanks,
t.
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t. cool

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#421491 - 05/20/16 09:37 AM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: Bill in Dayton]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I got them from a friend, DickieT. I only got about five or six. Not sure the 900 will play them though. Specs say the 900 will play MP3+G, which MP3 plus graphics. I don't know if that is the same format as CDG.
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DonM

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#421497 - 05/20/16 12:29 PM Re: MIDI File vs. MP3 File.. What's the difference? [Re: DonM]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
OK, Don, thanks ...
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