I have been observing the salesnumbers of thoman and musikstore in Germany for a few months now, and i have found that Arrangers in the format we love belong to the past when it comes to leading the salesnumbers as they still did two years ago..

With lightweight high quallity Mobile DP's becoming the replacement factor. At Thoman i have seen only the cheepest Yamaha arranger in the top 20 in the last few months, and the Havian 30 is the best selling arranger at Musikstore this month (it has 88 keys)

Its obvious the arranger formfactor as we love it is only bought by old timers in europe and the US, tough its still very popular in Asia explaining the trend of more and more balkan and asian sounds in those arrangers.

These numbers make me wonder how long it will take Roland, Korg or Yamaha to produce a highend 88key arranger?

not everyone including me wants a 88 key arranger especially for gigging for aso many reasons...
if it was that popular they would make them,.....if someone needs it just get a 88 key controller of your choice....

Bachus I have decided to go for the Havian instead of the PX 560. Reason is I just love the Korg styles and overall the Korg sound better. I really like the Casio sounds but the styles are not that good.

Its not about the current arranger players

Its about where current customers are spending money

And thats on everything with 88 piano keys

Arrangers cant stay back and move that way to, if they dont want to die with the oldtimers.. Arranger piano's are very viable for the youth.. Its not about keeping current customers happy, its about finding new customers to save the arranger from extinction..



The s970 clearly shows Yamaha searching to get the attention from the youth... 88 keys would have given it a better chance... The DGX 650 is to low end for a breaktrough, tough its better selling then any other Yamaha arranger in europe...

Its just a matter of time, i wouldnt be surprised to see an 88 key version somwhere between 970 and T5 make its way to Musikmesse..

Can't imagine a Tyros(xx) 88keys It might weigh 100 lbs.

The Havian has the same pianosound as the pa4x, its a great instrument, it also has the same styles as the pa3x...

either your a 88key piano player or an arranger kb player two very different camps & needs..

also too much emphasis on "Keybed" and not enough on Playing talent & skills IMO way more important..

I have had the pa600 and really like it except the keybed.

what makes you asume piano players will not like arranger styles... Yamaha allready has a whole line of Clavinova CVP with as much arranger on board as your PSR 970. Casio is putting a small arranger in everyone of their new stage piano's

it doesnt matter what kind of keyboardplayer you are, piano based, synth based or organ based... arranger styles are fun for everyone..


You are having a hard time placing your mind in someone elses shoes.. why wouldnt a piano player, espescially with full keyboard chord detection be extremely happy with some arranger styles on top of his playing?


Your opinions to often sound like : I dont want/need it, so noboddy needs/wants it.

nothing to do with styles I'm talking a trained piano player vs an arranger player there's a big difference with right & left hand playing technic....and the 88 key weighted definitely hinders my style of plaiyng arranger....I love it fast light & 61 for gigging.

For the kids I teach, it has a lot more to do with the touch of weighted keys...which most associate with 88 keys.

Interesting.

What about an arranger, weighted keyboard...76 keys but maybe 30 lbs or so? The technology currently exists.

I think I would be interested in something like that.

Who'd be a keyboard manufacturer? So many different requirements out there. It's the old "you can please some of the people some of the time, etc".

You know 90% !of sales go to untrained players and not to professionals?

If a yamaha would have to make their money from professional players, they wouldnt have survived the roaring 60's..

Its home players like me, with a steady income that probably spend most money on keyboards... Followed by parrents with kids..

its a personal ting playing KB ...but you can pick and choose all kinds of combinations to suit your needs....arrangers, synths, work stations, controllers, dig pianos, pc based programs, mix and match eventually you'll come up with something that suits YOUR needs,...listening to what OTHERS LOVE won't work for YOU,...
make it your own always,.. there's plenty out there what the heck its only money!!

I'm not so sure.

A guy I know uses an S950 midi'd into an 88 key weighted keyboard...pretty good sized rig he takes to the show. He made his living for years playing piano. But would like to do smaller gigs now that he's semi-retired.

He's looking for that smaller weighted keys keyboard that can do arranger functions...something that's halfway portable.

bottom line hes still a "piano player"...its definitely not the same technic..

Modern keyboardist learn many technics... Organ, piano, synth... And even using an arranger playstyle trying to reproduce accoustic instruments as good as possible on a keyboard... If you want to train yourself in all of these playstyles(piano players can easilly addapt to playing chords in the right hand) your choice would be a lighter hammer action keybed with aftertouch, much like the ones in Motif, Kronos, Kurzweil and Nord stage..


Just give me one reason why a piano player would not know how to play arranger? Peter Baartmans does it all the time as many others..