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#416583 - 02/12/16 06:15 AM Re: Orchestral Strings and Acoustic Demo on Montage [Re: mirza]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 5147
Originally Posted By: mirza
If these kind of sounds you need and it is just at home or studio, why even bother with any of these workstations? VSTs are at least 100x better for strings or orchestra sounds. Workstation keyboards don't even come close.
I know there is a hustle setting up everything, but you do it once and you are set for a long time.


i have a Tyros 5 and a Kronos and a whole plethora of VSt´s that i barely use these days, because most of the time i just want to sit down and make music..

And you are wrong, Tyros5 and Kronos come pretty close to the quallity of most VST´s. Close enough not to notice the difference.

The same would probably go for the Yamaha Montage..


Edited by Bachus (02/12/16 06:16 AM)
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#416584 - 02/12/16 06:24 AM Re: Orchestral Strings and Acoustic Demo on Montage [Re: Bachus]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 644
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: Bachus
Originally Posted By: mirza
If these kind of sounds you need and it is just at home or studio, why even bother with any of these workstations? VSTs are at least 100x better for strings or orchestra sounds. Workstation keyboards don't even come close.
I know there is a hustle setting up everything, but you do it once and you are set for a long time.


i have a Tyros 5 and a Kronos and a whole plethora of VSt´s that i barely use these days, because most of the time i just want to sit down and make music..

And you are wrong, Tyros5 and Kronos come pretty close to the quallity of most VST´s. Close enough not to notice the difference.

The same would probably go for the Yamaha Montage..




Thank you for that comparison. Now, I feel better about sticking with a top keyboard! I won't feel bad if I don't get Vsts. smile

In this latest Montage video, the demonstrator basically says the same thing at 2:55 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W83fHtxVF4


Edited by Mikem (02/12/16 06:25 AM)
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#416587 - 02/12/16 06:30 AM Re: Orchestral Strings and Acoustic Demo on Montage [Re: Mikem]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 644
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Bachus, where the demonstrator actually says the Montage is as good as sample libraries is found at 1:23 minutes. In the post above, I said that at 2:55 he says you don't have to wait for the sounds to load on the Montage (like you do for VSTs). He says that at 3:14, not 2:55. My mistake. smile


Edited by Mikem (02/12/16 06:37 AM)
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#416589 - 02/12/16 07:37 AM Re: Orchestral Strings and Acoustic Demo on Montage [Re: Mikem]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4558
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: Mikem
Originally Posted By: mirza
If these kind of sounds you need and it is just at home or studio, why even bother with any of these workstations? VSTs are at least 100x better for strings or orchestra sounds. Workstation keyboards don't even come close.
I know there is a hustle setting up everything, but you do it once and you are set for a long time.



The reasons I don't get into VSTs are;

1) I don't have a technical mind. I just don't understand computers, software, etc......and I'm not interested in learning those things. It's a miracle I can even surf the internet. smile

2) I don't want to make music on a computer, or stare at a computer screen.

3) I read there is latency with VSTs. When I go from one sound to the next, I don't want to have to wait a few seconds for the new sound to kick in.

4) I would have to buy another computer dedicated to the VSTs. I don't have a tablet or anything like that.

5) From what I've heard, top workstations and arrangers sound very good, and everything is built in. The sounds are ready to play, with reverb, chorus, etc. With software, you need to buy effects and apply them. It's a hassle.

When I hear certain VSTs, like EastWest or Garritan, I drool over the orchestral sounds. I wish keyboards would come with that kind of realism. That's why I look forward to hearing new keyboards. I want to see if their orchestral sounds are getting closer to VSTs.

I guess the way I explained the above points may be laughable to some, but I really don't know technical terms. I'm sure my objections can be answered, but just the idea of making music on a computer is a turn off.

I've looked at Musebox, Receptor and other recent VST hosts, but in the end, it seems I prefer a good workstation/arranger.

Any thoughts would be welcome. Maybe I'm missing something (probably in my head!) smile








To answer your reluctance
1. To run and use most VSTs are no more difficult than learning to use a new keyboard. (Once the VST is loaded on the computer (As with any program) you can just focus on creating sound)
2. Unless a very basic keyboard you will be using (And looking) at the screen just as much.
3. Depends on the type of VST, and whether you pre-load at start-up (Your choice) however in the real world it is pretty much a non-entity these days.
4. Most modern keyboards are moving over to apps to do the serious work (Rather than on-board) so you will probably need a tablet eventually anyway.
5. Virtually all VSTi have effects built in (There are also way more and of a much better quality) however if you want more, then you can add them as you wish. (With a keyboard you are stuck with what you are given)
6. There is no reason why keyboards can’t have quality library’s like VSTs (The Kronos is a good example of this) however manufactures tend to use the cheapest hardware they can get away with so are just not up to the job. (Yamaha owns Steinberg so they could quite easily have included Steinberg VSTs on-board with the Montage)

Once you have used VSTs it soon becomes second nature, the main point is to get a good controller keyboard (Unfortunately most Arranger keyboards are pretty much useless due to limited capabilities (Yamaha Arrangers are real pain in the butt in this respect) as they are designed for the home hobby player (Korg’s aren’t too bad though)

The most important thing with music is to enjoy making it on whatever you use.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#416616 - 02/12/16 11:49 AM Re: Orchestral Strings and Acoustic Demo on Montage [Re: abacus]
Mikem Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/14
Posts: 644
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: abacus
Originally Posted By: Mikem
Originally Posted By: mirza
If these kind of sounds you need and it is just at home or studio, why even bother with any of these workstations? VSTs are at least 100x better for strings or orchestra sounds. Workstation keyboards don't even come close.
I know there is a hustle setting up everything, but you do it once and you are set for a long time.



The reasons I don't get into VSTs are;

1) I don't have a technical mind. I just don't understand computers, software, etc......and I'm not interested in learning those things. It's a miracle I can even surf the internet. smile

2) I don't want to make music on a computer, or stare at a computer screen.

3) I read there is latency with VSTs. When I go from one sound to the next, I don't want to have to wait a few seconds for the new sound to kick in.

4) I would have to buy another computer dedicated to the VSTs. I don't have a tablet or anything like that.

5) From what I've heard, top workstations and arrangers sound very good, and everything is built in. The sounds are ready to play, with reverb, chorus, etc. With software, you need to buy effects and apply them. It's a hassle.

When I hear certain VSTs, like EastWest or Garritan, I drool over the orchestral sounds. I wish keyboards would come with that kind of realism. That's why I look forward to hearing new keyboards. I want to see if their orchestral sounds are getting closer to VSTs.

I guess the way I explained the above points may be laughable to some, but I really don't know technical terms. I'm sure my objections can be answered, but just the idea of making music on a computer is a turn off.

I've looked at Musebox, Receptor and other recent VST hosts, but in the end, it seems I prefer a good workstation/arranger.

Any thoughts would be welcome. Maybe I'm missing something (probably in my head!) smile








To answer your reluctance
1. To run and use most VSTs are no more difficult than learning to use a new keyboard. (Once the VST is loaded on the computer (As with any program) you can just focus on creating sound)
2. Unless a very basic keyboard you will be using (And looking) at the screen just as much.
3. Depends on the type of VST, and whether you pre-load at start-up (Your choice) however in the real world it is pretty much a non-entity these days.
4. Most modern keyboards are moving over to apps to do the serious work (Rather than on-board) so you will probably need a tablet eventually anyway.
5. Virtually all VSTi have effects built in (There are also way more and of a much better quality) however if you want more, then you can add them as you wish. (With a keyboard you are stuck with what you are given)
6. There is no reason why keyboards can’t have quality library’s like VSTs (The Kronos is a good example of this) however manufactures tend to use the cheapest hardware they can get away with so are just not up to the job. (Yamaha owns Steinberg so they could quite easily have included Steinberg VSTs on-board with the Montage)

Once you have used VSTs it soon becomes second nature, the main point is to get a good controller keyboard (Unfortunately most Arranger keyboards are pretty much useless due to limited capabilities (Yamaha Arrangers are real pain in the butt in this respect) as they are designed for the home hobby player (Korg’s aren’t too bad though)

The most important thing with music is to enjoy making it on whatever you use.

Bill



Thanks very much for answering my objections. You did a very good job removing some of my hesitations. I do keep an eye out for new keyboards that host VSTIs, like Komplete Kontrol and Akai Advance. I'm sure tempted! Thanks again!
_________________________
Mike

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