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#414740 - 01/16/16 10:06 PM why I dislike keyboard touchscreens
Mark79100 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
Last year I had severe pain and burning in my fingertips. I thought for sure it was nerve damage from diabetes that I might have acquired. I finally went to an orthopedic surgeon who gave me tests and found a)I had no nerve damage, and b) I didn't have diabetes.

But he warned me about "excessive use of the fingertips." It could lead to permanent damage over the years. And, my "over the years" time period was up around now. For the last few years I've been typing more than usual, playing the piano more than usual, and even working my GPS inappropriately. Fortunately, I don't use an I-phone.

It's starting up again now, but I've learned how to control it. I bought a Logitech K750 computer keyboard which allows me to use the flat part of my fingers to type. On my keyboard, I use the tabs as much as possible and not the screen.

Thought I'd mention this if anyone else is getting pain in their fingertips.

Mark

It's called repetitive motions syndrome.

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#414741 - 01/16/16 10:16 PM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Mark79100]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I would think that the touchscreen on a keyboard would be WAY less stressful than typing, playing keyboards, etc. And you could even use either the fingernail or the pad of your finger. I generally always use the "fingerprint" area on my PA.
Still what you have is no doubt better than having nerve damage or diabetes!
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DonM

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#414744 - 01/16/16 10:50 PM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: DonM]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: DonM
I would think that the touchscreen on a keyboard would be WAY less stressful than typing, playing keyboards, etc. And you could even use either the fingernail or the pad of your finger. I generally always use the "fingerprint" area on my PA.
Still what you have is no doubt better than having nerve damage or diabetes!


Thats right, you can even use a touchscreen by barely touching the screeen, modern screens are not pressure based, bu just act based on proximmity.

Fingernail however does not work on these new touchscreens, you ned to touch it with your skin..
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#414746 - 01/17/16 01:10 AM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Mark79100]
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1925
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
When I had Touch Screen on both Korg & Roland I used the back of my finger on touch screen with my nail. I found it more actuate than a finger tip.


Edited by Graham UK (01/17/16 01:10 AM)

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#414750 - 01/17/16 06:06 AM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Mark79100]
Steve A Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 388
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Mark.....Why don't you switch over to a a stylus pen?
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Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com
Korg Pa4x 76...TASCAM DP24 & DP24 SD. Studio One 6 Professional with a FADER PORT 16. 1969 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha Red Label Nippon Gakki. Breedlove American CME 25. Neumann TLM-49

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#414754 - 01/17/16 06:56 AM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Steve A]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
When I know I will be working on the keyboard for a while - making a playlist for a certain gig, editing styles for certain songs, etc. I will use the eraser end of a pencil ... works fine and saves the finger tips ...
In live mode, I will most often use the inside tip of my index finger, right where the fingernail and skin meet ...
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t. cool

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#414762 - 01/17/16 09:32 AM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Graham UK]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: Graham UK
When I had Touch Screen on both Korg & Roland I used the back of my finger on touch screen with my nail. I found it more actuate than a finger tip.


Yes works on old screens, they where pressure sensitive... The newer ones arent..
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#414770 - 01/17/16 12:15 PM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Mark79100]
rosetree
Unregistered


I have had this repetitive strain / motion syndrom too since 2012, but not at my fingertips, but in the tendons below the ellbow, first right, then partly left (after I changed to the left hand for using the computer mouse).
It occurs no matter how minimal the movements are, it has little to do with how hard a button has to be pressed, but just the thousands of repetitions are what causes the problem.

There are special stylus pens for capacitive touchscreens with a soft end, I would use one of those, I use it for my iPAD sometimes.

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#414774 - 01/17/16 01:28 PM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Mark79100]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15559
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Rosetree, I suspect you are suffering from Renaud's Disease, which is not uncommon for individuals that perform many repetitive motions. There are tests for this, but the tests are quite uncomfortable. One utilizes the placement of your hands in a bucket of ice-water for five minutes, then measuring the nerve conduction of your hands. The other involves the insertion of a very thin needle into the muscle, then firing an electrical impulse through the needle and measuring the transmission of the stimuli with attached electrodes. Your doctor can provide you with the details and where to go to have the test performed.

Good luck,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#414775 - 01/17/16 01:52 PM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: travlin'easy]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Rosetree, I suspect you are suffering from Renaud's Disease, which is not uncommon for individuals that perform many repetitive motions. There are tests for this, but the tests are quite uncomfortable. One utilizes the placement of your hands in a bucket of ice-water for five minutes, then measuring the nerve conduction of your hands. The other involves the insertion of a very thin needle into the muscle, then firing an electrical impulse through the needle and measuring the transmission of the stimuli with attached electrodes. Your doctor can provide you with the details and where to go to have the test performed.

Good luck,

Gary cool


Thank you for your hint, Gary. However, if you are referring to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynaud%27s_phenomenon

I think it doesn't fit, as I never have any symptoms of lacking blood circulation or pale looking fingers, and none of the orthopedists and doctors I've consulted ever referred to this syndrome.
I've obtained some tips I haven't tried out yet, most of them recommend consulting an osteopath instead of an orthopedist.


Edited by rosetree (01/17/16 01:52 PM)

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#414784 - 01/17/16 04:57 PM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Mark79100]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15559
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
The orthopods don't deal with this as it's a vascular problem often triggered by repetitive impact to a specific area. The orthopods primarily deal with joint disorders, which is quite different.

As for the diminished blood flow, yes, you could have it, but not to the point where you see color change in the extremities. I have it, and my hand and finger color is perfectly normal, however, the flow is diminished by about 40 percent in my left hand, and 60 percent in my right hand. In my case, I did a lot of dumb stuff when I was younger, like splitting my own firewood, pounding bricks into sand to make my own sidewalk and patio, stuff like that, which eventually takes a toll on extremities. Additionally, I punched those PC keyboard keys every day of the week, writing 1,500 to 5,000-word magazine and newspaper articles for fishing and boating magazines. I often felt an aching in my hands at night and soaked them in hot water to relieve the pain on a nightly basis as I grew older.

My wife also has it, but not quite as severe as mine. She acquired hers by constantly punching IBM cards when she was very young. In order to get a proper diagnosis, you need to consult with a vascular specialist - not an orthopod (orthopedic surgeon).

Good luck,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#414790 - 01/17/16 09:23 PM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: ]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: rosetree


There are special stylus pens for capacitive touchscreens with a soft end, I would use one of those, I use it for my iPAD sometimes.


Ipad yes...

But touchscreen on a keyboard, no way, i dont have time to grab the pen everytime i need to make realtime changes. and my playing requires my 2 hands...

many people use stylus on the kronos because many of the items are so small, but just does not work for realtime changes... only for programming the thing before a performance...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#414795 - 01/18/16 06:07 AM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: Bachus]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Bachus

Ipad yes...

But touchscreen on a keyboard, no way, i dont have time to grab the pen everytime i need to make realtime changes. and my playing requires my 2 hands...

many people use stylus on the kronos because many of the items are so small, but just does not work for realtime changes... only for programming the thing before a performance...


That's clear, I thought it only concerns editing at home.
I would always prefer real buttons if it is about switching something during live performance.

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#414796 - 01/18/16 06:10 AM Re: why I dislike keyboard touchscreens [Re: travlin'easy]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
The orthopods don't deal with this as it's a vascular problem often triggered by repetitive impact to a specific area. The orthopods primarily deal with joint disorders, which is quite different.

As for the diminished blood flow, yes, you could have it, but not to the point where you see color change in the extremities. I have it, and my hand and finger color is perfectly normal, however, the flow is diminished by about 40 percent in my left hand, and 60 percent in my right hand. In my case, I did a lot of dumb stuff when I was younger, like splitting my own firewood, pounding bricks into sand to make my own sidewalk and patio, stuff like that, which eventually takes a toll on extremities. Additionally, I punched those PC keyboard keys every day of the week, writing 1,500 to 5,000-word magazine and newspaper articles for fishing and boating magazines. I often felt an aching in my hands at night and soaked them in hot water to relieve the pain on a nightly basis as I grew older.

My wife also has it, but not quite as severe as mine. She acquired hers by constantly punching IBM cards when she was very young. In order to get a proper diagnosis, you need to consult with a vascular specialist - not an orthopod (orthopedic surgeon).

Good luck,

Gary cool


I'll keep that possibility in mind and address it when consulting a doctor about it again. Thanks again for the hint!

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