Have you Ever asked yourself should I play in front of a paying audience? Am I good enough or not confident, butterflies in your stomach, audience shyness, etc,?.......I thought this would be a good topic of conversation to hear what players are thinking who haven't played in front of a paying audience.......or is your living room as far as you want to go?

Or for those doing it a long time when did you know you were good enough to perform & sing in front of paying customers, dancers, etc,..what's your confidence mindset before you go on stage in front of a familiar audience vs a Cold new crowd?

I thought I was at the time I started, but I was a part of a band. I now realize I wasn't very good. Same thing when I went solo. I thought I was doing things right, sounding good, but I cringe to think how bad I must have been. I played a lot of wrong chords because I was getting them out of fake books, and they weren't all there.
I KNEW I couldn't sing a lick. Had to work very hard for a long time to get decent. I was finally forced into singing if I wanted to keep a job we had. We kicked the singer out for being a jerk, and they shoved the mic in front of me. I have slowly learned a lot over the past 50 years.
Someone told me you have to bad before you can get good. I got the bad part right and still working on the good.

Well, first of all, if someone has heard me and is paying me to perform for them, I must be 'good enough', at least to their ears ...
When I was about 15 years old and playing High School dances, when the girls started hanging out around the bandstand and smiling at me, I figured I was 'good enough', at least to their ears ...

I still get 'butterflies' in my gut whenever I go to perform, whether I am familiar with the audience or not ... and of course even more so if I know there are other musicians in the crowd ...

It was easier when I was with the band ...

My first pay job was when I was 17 years old. I played in a band formed by a shipmate (not the Navy Band) and we were in Barcelona Spain. One of the guitar guys decided it was time to quit because he was getting discharged from the Navy that week and headed home. Like DonM, I played lots of bum chords, but fortunately, I had a good singing voice, better than anyone else in the band. And, that voice continues to save my arse to this day. I've never been a real musician, and never claimed to be - just an entertainer, and entertainers deserve to get paid for what they bring to the table. The only time I was a bit nervous was when I decided to go solo for that first time. I was scared to death for the first 20 minutes, and after that, I've never been a bit apprehensive about stepping up in front of a crowd, no matter the size. I've never been apprehensive about meeting strangers, and for the most part, I've probably never had more than a few jobs that didn't go the way I intended. I guess I've been very fortunate in this business, and I always tell folks I have the best job in the world. If I were not so damned old and crippled up I would still be out there every day of the week, but alas, I can no longer handle that schedule.

I think the only time I got butterflies in my gut was when we had the Syntzone Jam here at my home and I had to step up in front of some of the best musicians on this forum. That only lasted about 30 seconds, though.

All the best,

Gary

I don't know where to start but here goes,....many people think they sound good, have the latest and greatest gear or their friends, wife, or whoever told them they sound great, or they sing in the shower and convince themselves, or they just don't give a dam and just want the money,...some don't know any better, some, mean well but have never been taught or have had the experience to learn, play with a band, or how to perform in front of people,...especially people that are paying good money to enjoy themselves for dinner, dancing, drinking, or whatever,..and just what does "good enough" actually mean anyway? First off you gotta LOVE what your doing, second you have to want to be better then everyone else, third you have to have a BIG ego that says in your head "I'm better then all these other people" and let that give you the confidence & drive to go out night after night and kill the audience with 150% of your soul on stage & make them say WOW this guy is really good, and know your the luckiest guy in the world to be able to play Music,...and that's EVERY single time you perform, especially if you make a full time living at playing music,.......it's like a good restaurant, if the food is great you go back time after time and tell all your friends to go eat there too,....but, if the food Sux you do the opposite and tell them never to go there again, etc, same with your performances,.....this is a people business first and foremost and should be treated as such. Are you booked solid, phone ringing off the wall, do you have to beg for work or are people seeking you out because of your ability to give a great show every time and they want YOU?..or are you sitting home sulking and asking yourself why is that guy playing all the time and I'm not? Is your repertoire the right mix of songs for the audiences you play, is the dance floor empty most times, do you play what YOU like instead of what THEY LIKE? are you reading the audience properly watching how people react to different styles of music so you can steer your show in that direction, is your time between songs excessive?, breaks too long?, during breaks are you shmoozing the crowds, hugging the ladies, shaking hands with people, giving out business cards?, trying to book more work? when your in the crowd on a break is the feedback all "very positive" or are you hearing "hey When are you gonna play something we can dance to"? etc, you should be very proud and confident to walk out amongst the audience knowing they have enjoyed you,......I Know I have so much more on my mind...like maintaining a fan email list, maintaining a website, sending out emails, tweaking every single song you play to perfection, etc,.. etc,..people need music in so many different ways find your niche and make it happen and most of all HAVE CONFIDENCE IN YOUR MUSIC!...and most of all have FUN!! I hope to hear more from all of you and meanwhile I'll think of some more stuff to share...we learn from each other keep talking..

Donny,

I ask myself that all the time, never had a lot of confidence in my musical ability which is why i chose career(s) out of the music business. I'd hate to tell you how many times I said to myself. ah why do I even bother, especially when hearing the better musicians here. I've had my share of success in non-musical side of life, but music has been elusive. I was a late bloomer too, never played a gig until I was 54 years old, I got the gig because an old friend of mine a busy entertainer was double booked, the assisted living facility wanted a piano soloists to play all Christmas music and he threw the gig my way, that opened the door.

I usually don't get butterflies before a gig but when I do they disappear once I start playing. Yea, I spell my musical career if I can even call it a career F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-O-N. More than once I though I'd just sell all the gear and hang it up, but I have never given up so I just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

After spending many years in sales I know I'm not being aggressive enough with marketing activity.

I suppose the part that came hardest for me was the schmoozing bit. I'm good at it now, but I hated going out there and talking to strangers. Over the years I've developed a lot of conversation-starters, or "lines" that I use.
Last night there were still some people in town from the Independence Bowl. One table was right in front of me and I started talking to them, found they were from Tulsa, which happens to be my home town.
I played Tulsa Time, and Take Me Back To Tulsa, and Oklahoma Hills, etc. The oldest guy came up and told me how much he enjoyed it and put two pictures of Ben Franklin in my jar!

Don as you know shmoozing is a Big part of any performance....when I was a kid 12-13,my dad put me in big bands playing accordion, keyboards, percussion, with 80+ yr old Jewish guys who taught me the ropes and tricks of the trade which I still use today,....you have to be confident and proud of what your doing on stage and know that when you go out there you will only hear praise 99% of the time,...and if not do something to make sure you do. They would always tell me when we take a break don't waste time smoking a cigarette outside, ....instead go out there and give out cards, hug, kiss, shake hands & get more work etc, and don't drink...lol....I still do it today on every break, in a club, dance, restaurant, nursing home, etc,... remember the people can make you or break you, for me only playing only in my living room would never be an option, seeing people happy in the audience because of my music makes me feel so good inside and thats where the magic lies,

One of the things I did right, from the very start, was never drink on the job, or before the job, or after the job (you have to drive home, right?). Maybe that's one reason I'm still working every night at age 72. One of the happiest days of my career was when they banned smoking in all places that serve food here.
Smoking is still allowed in bars that do not serve food. I refuse to work in them. Glad I don't have to, because I did for many years, including my own.
Interesting note, the VFW here banned smoking on weekend nights in their bar. Business increased dramatically!

We rehearsed in my studio for six months, then we finally landed a job. It was a wedding in a German beer garden. We gave all we had; on the way out the manager said we were the worst band he had ever heard. When I think about today he was right.
Starting at the age of 11 my father would play the piano player I would stand out front and sing. We had a musical family; there was always music in my home.

Schmoozing was not my thing. I believed that if the music was real good I did not have to do anything else. I was always ready to talk but not with purpose.

Was I nervous before starting? Yes, every time we started to play. I played a job for the Bank of North America; it was in a local park. There were about 2,000 people. After setting up a crowed of four deep completely circled the band. B3 with pedals, drums, sax, and myself on guitar.
I picked up my guitar and was about to start playing and I froze. Four deep, I was beyond nervous. I took a deep breath and we started. That was one of the best jobs I ever played; the crowd with crazy and so did we.

I booked a job In Manhattan at a high end hotel, as we entered the room that we were going to play in there was not a white person to be seen. Black people love music and they are great at what they do so was beyond nervous. My band never played so good – we booked six jobs before leaving.

OK, I writing too much. My last thought: I feel being a bit nervous always made us play better. AS a salesman we always wiggled our toes in our shoes before going into a home.
A good crowd and a touch of the getters makes a band play better.

John C.

… First paid job 60 years ago. My experience pretty much parallels Don’s, started with a band, vocals consisted of OOO AAAHHHHs. To this day, my musicianship is still lacking, but I learned a long time ago how to entertain, make folks feel good. I don’t remember ever having stage fright or feeling nervous. It was easy in the beginning, most of the tunes consisted of three chords and what we used to refer to as “the Blue Moon chords” ( 1-6-2-5). We also worked out of the combo-orks books and fake books. In the ’50’s, most accordion/keyboard players just mashed chords to emulate the big band horn sections, solos strictly adhered to the written melody line with a flourish now and then. I still enjoy gigging, I have a good time and that seems to influence listeners. I have a very hard time playing at home, (so, I don’t practice enough - not a good thing). I need to perform in front of people and play off listeners’ responses, or what I perceive as a their response. Hopefully, Someday I’ll be as good a musician as most of the members of this forum … I’ll start practicing on Monday … errrrr, maybe next Monday. I will confess that I don't think I'd be working at all if it were not for the arranger keyboards and modules.

I have never been afraid of schmoozing - it's one of the fun parts of the job. I love meeting new people, and several years ago when I performed every Friday night at an American Legion in Havre de Grace, MD, I would fire up the keyboard, hit a Cm using the Pink Panther style, first variation, and walk through the audience and sing Fever with a wireless, handheld mic. Sometimes I would sit lightly on some of the ladies laps and sing softly to them, smiling the entire time. It produced lots of big tips in my tip pitcher (I use a plastic beer pitcher because it holds a lot more money). Sometimes they would run their fingers through my hair, which usually caused a chuckle from some of the other ladies at the tables. That was 25 years ago, though. Now I don't have enough hair to for them to do that, and I'm too damned fat to sit upon their laps.

All the best,

Gary

The two major sins in this business (IMO):
1. Being the wrong entertainer for the audience.
2. Having the wrong audience to entertain.
Virtually all NEW business that calls is by way of referral or by someone who has already seen what I do.
Before I take ANY new job I want to be sure I am right for them and they are right for me.
Asking the right questions will get you the answer you need to accept, decline or recommend an alternative.

Like most of us here, I learned the hard way, accepting jobs I was not suited for. The ABSOLUTE WORST was a nightclub that failed to tell me
(and I failed to ask) that it was a gay club that expected everything from broadway to techno. I should have known from the moment
I entered the lounge, where they had a display offering free condums. BTW... I also got stiffed that night....er...bad choice of words. Rather
they failed to send the check they promised.

Eddie

Eddie, I understand. When I came to Florida in 1984 I used a booking agent to get jobs. About 20 jobs later he booked me for New Years in a Greek restaurant. The people were very friendly but they refused to dance to anything but Greek music. I gave them my best. They only time they danced is when I played the only Greek song I knew Zorba the Greek. The four hours seemed like ten. Never worked for that leader again.

Schmoozing: Friendly yes, but I was never a schmoozer. My wife was the queen of schmoozers, after she began singing with the band people were all over us; we got more jobs. I was supporting a family with my music, there were enough jobs. When I added Miss Queen Schmoozer to the band jobs increased.

John C.

let me also ask this specific question also...
Why do you think your good enough to perform in front of paying audiences?

DUHH, I guess if the audience pays and then doesn't boo you are good enough?

I thought I answered that with my first response:

no always true Tony,....I know people that are desperate and cheap and will hire anyone just to have a body in the room..I'm glad we can choose our gigs, I always do.

or in some cases Don throw beer bottles at you
then again depending on the venue.....people will come to eat not knowing who or if they have entertainment so once they sit and order they are stuck with whoever is on that stage ...the hope is they are as good as you .....otherwise it's a dinner experience from hell ....

True. That's why I'm going back to work five nights for a while. The guy we had on Tuesday and Wednesday was running people off. He played guitar along with songs he sequenced on an old Casio arranger. He had two girls singing with him, and they were pretty good. Problem is he would talk for 10 minutes between songs, take 30 minute breaks, etc.
You get what you pay for, and he was working really cheap.

OUCH!!!

Well said, Don... Nailed it, imo...

In short, I suppose I realized I could sing pretty well in High School as Solos, roles in various musicals and choral responsibilites (helping other kids with their parts) happened on a routine basis. It continued in college, (just a crappy CC in Pittsburgh) I realized I could hang with almost anyone as long as I stayed within my vocal/musical limitations. (I suppose all baritones want to be 1st tenors, but its wasn't meant to be. I've learned to embrace my lower registers over time, lol...

Instrument wise was where I had to work the hardest. I've never taken lessons and am self-taught. Hanging around some killer musicians when I was younger taught me that I didn't have to be Keith Emerson to be an effective piano/kb guy. I knew quickly I was never going to play at that level (Hmm, maybe lessons would've helped after all???) and instead, decided to become the best support/rhythym player I could be. Primarily a vocalist who was learning how to play, I found that my singing ability really helped me accompany myself and others pretty well. I also learned early on how to play and contribute to a tight, killer rhythm section. There are certain do's and don't and a certain way to "listen" or "feel" the part when playing in that situation. I think I've been blessed with a freakishly good ear and it serves me well to say the least.

Growing older, I sensed my performance level was improving and other musicians and audience memebrs were very supportive, so that gave me the confidence to keep at it. During this one man band phase (which has reached 20 years somehow), the interaction with the audience one finds at NH's, RC's, etc.. has always felt very comfortable to me. I think it matched up quite well with my temperment, personality and skill set.

Realizing the power this music has on my audiences has been amazing. The guys who do the NH circuits for a living know what I'm talking about.

I've also taken some time to listen to other performers in the area. A few I consider talented and pretty good but some kind of suck. In general, those who suck don't necessarily do so because of a difference in talent level, but rather in professionalism, dedication to their craft and a lack of personal concern and how they relate to the residents. There's no excuse for not changing up your shows, not being on time, not keeping the focus on the audience and not yourself. IMO.

As Gary has said several times, all this attentionto detail adds up over time and at some point you're such a force and hitting on all cylanders that the work just pours in. Your reputation, professionalism and quality keeps the bookings coming. Just last night, I booked my 499th and 500th gigs for the year, with 4 regular clients still to reserve their dates due to delayed budgets. I live in Dayton, OH, which isn't that big of a town. Yes, I get some business from Cincy and C-bus, but I'm one lucky son of a bitch to be working this much in this area of the country.

(Somewhere on the PSR Tutorial site (I think) is a rather long-winded essay on what I think is the right way to handle the NH circuit gigs. If someone is really interested, I'm sure its around there somewhere.)

Thanks to Donny for the thread...good topic!

Bill

Bill thats good to hear and you make very valid points.....
have a great year on stage I know I will.

Bill, is this the long winded article you are talking about? http://www.psrtutorial.com/music/articles/marketing.html

All the best,

Gary

Nope.. It wasn't YOUR long winded post, it was MY long winded post, lol...

Here it is, my post is sevceral posts from the top of the page...

Pro Clinic ...

Whether or not to play for the public is question # 1 for me right now. I have been playing one 30 hour recording gig a week (a sound score for a 20 minute film for Fortune 500 companies), plus 20-30 hours at a country club, for government offices and for area philharmonics.


The 30 hours session pays about 6 times as much as the same number of hours for the public. If the project is for broadcast, points add significantly to the income from the project.

Thing is, I don't miss the public (yet) but the structure and pressure to "get it right the first time".

If you listen, there is a score of some kind on almost anything you see or hear on the radio, the net, TV, etc. But, this work is not a series of tunes, with a head, tail and a bridge. Much is sound effects. There are lots of meterless passages...dead space, etc. It's a completely different mindset. There is generally an advertising agency to work with, and 90% of the time, they're just in the way.The score is being produced at the last minute to coincide with the finishing of the entire film edit.The deadline is always 8:00 AM the day after completion, so there is no room for error, making the pressure to "get it right" horrendous. I LIKE THAT!

I can't do both, so I'll be making a choice soon. I'll still go to Dubai to play 4 times a year and keep up my film production, graphics and research work through my production company.

I get lots of calls, so they're either tone deaf or I'm minimally skilled to play live.


Maybe not for long, though!


R.

You'd better keep your butt in the good old USA!

Yep! I agree with DonM. He's pretty smart fella, ya know.

As for missing the audiences, I miss them very much. I got to know hundreds of them on a first name basis, met many of their family members, went to some of their funerals, etc... This is going to be a very long winter for me, and as many of you know, I hate winter in this part of the world.

Donny Pesce may love the cold weather, but us real old farts like temperatures closer to our age. Just talked with a friend in Marathon Key, Florida, he said a cold wave passed through and yesterday the mercury plunged to 77 degrees. All the locals were wearing jackets, while the snowbirds were walking in town with shorts, tee shirts and flip-flops.

Russ, you are very talented, and probably a much better entertainer than you believe you are. If I were in your position, I would think seriously about giving up the high pressure stuff, or making arrangements with the PR folks to give you more time to finish the projects. Bout time you took time to smell the roses before someone is placing them on your casket. I should know! I waited far too long to semi retire.

Good luck,

Gary

If Russ retired, he'd be dead in six months! Besides that he needs the money to keep his collections of guitar, keyboards, cars, scooters, etc., up to date.

My advice to Russ, even though he didn't ask, would be do whatever gives you the most pleasure. MUSIC-WISE that is!

For some folks (like Russ), living life to it's fullest every waking moment IS 'smelling the roses'. When I see all the ol' farts sitting around waiting to die (while watching reruns of 'Happy Days'), I just admire even more those that choose to continue to be productive. So I say, keep it up Russ, as long as it's still fun and fulfilling. Heck, I might even start taking that advice myself........soon.



chas

If you're able to do it Chas, do it. Don't forget that some of those you see "Sitting around waiting to die" would much rather be doing something were it it not for their poor fortune healthwise.

Up until a few months ago we had a roadie, 85 years young, then osteoarthritis took such a vicious swing at him from out of nowhere that he's now barely able to walk.

Count yourself lucky that you still have the mobility to do things and just do it.

Chas, I agree. While we're barely into winter, it already seems as it will never end. Too cold outside to do anything outdoors. I can't ride my bicycle in 21 degree temperatures (today's high), I've already cleaned up most of the leaves, no lawn to mow (too cold for grass to grow), I no longer go hunting, it's too cold to go fishing (skim ice on the lakes, streams and ponds), the sailboat is sitting on dry ground in winter storage. Only exercise I'm getting is lifting weights and riding the stationary, recumbent bike, which ain't enough. Only performing 2 jobs a month, now, but that's because too many body parts are shot to Hell. I liked it more when I was doing 2 jobs a day and working 5 to 7 days a week. What most folks don't know is that Russ and I did a lot of the same things, and it was balls to the wall for decades. I was a columnist for 25 publications, sold print media advertising, recorded voice overs for local radio stations and even had my own TV show about the outdoors on local, cable TV, and this, was in addition to playing music 3 t 4 nights a week. I thought I was invincible - I wasn't!

Now, if my only form of recreational excitement was from being a performer, I would be in the looney bin by now. Fortunately, I have a myriad of activities that I enjoy, but as I posted above, I really do miss all the wonderful people in my audiences. They are the reason I loved being an entertainer, and I'm sure Russ feels the same.

Now Chas, that offer still holds when this old codger sails south next fall. The bar and pantry will be fully stocked, with luck I'll hook up with a big bluefin tuna on the way south and it'll still be fresh when I get to the Georgia/South Carolina border. Hard to beat fresh grilled tuna while sippin a cool Margaretta. I should know!

All the best,

Gary

Heres a cure all for all you old farts.......

Damn! And I thought it was Jim Beam!

Hell Donny, that's only one ingredient in my Green Coconut Margaretta.

124 - Got some Jim Beam Honey on the boat, too - great tasting bourbon.



Gary

The 'Tequila' clip was really funny .

chas

Love it Donny ... Have to share the tequila vid on my Facebook page

Let's all sing "That's What Friends Are For".

Man, I wish more communications on the net was as much fun and as meaningful as this.


GROUP HUG.....GROUP HUG!

Thanks to all who posted,. Wouldn't it be GREAT if we kept up this level of fun and respect permanently?


R.

You are right Gary. My wife has been buying Jim Bean Honey recently and it is very good.