...by a novice like me on my souped up S950. The WOW factor...

Henni

Henni, this is mostly a midi file. I guess you are playing that trumpet at the beginning.

Somewhere in my archives I have a style file that is dedicated to this song.

Gary

Nope,

It's a style that I spiced up. Style live play one take only, no midi whatsoever. Assigned the new instruments to it, no VSTs needed. Next up is to create multipads from certain sections of the style intro & endings to make it even better & fuller...

I listened to other's over here's rendition of this tune & this one did not turn out too bad in comparison.

I have my own words for this tune & soon we'll record it live as such, using the vocalizer as well. Maybe I'll post over here again. However, I doubt that many would be interested in the words.

Now you see why I like my S950. It is WOW & tweaking it just makes it sound better & better! The possibilities with it are just endless. And the available styles - what more can I say...

Cheers,

Henni

Great sound Henni! Good job.

Hi Don,

This demonstrates clearly what I meant by the "Yamaha's producing the WOW factor simply by pushing the right buttons @ the right time". Imagine and ordinary style allowing one to do that. This also clearly demonstrates why I'm so fond of the Yamaha intros & endings - they sure are mostly spectacular & can be used for a specific purpose whilst playing live. (Too bad Ketron never took heed of the repeated request to allow one to choose intro's or endings in succession to ones desire whilst playing a style live as I use this a LOT!)

So now even button pushers like i.e. myself can make it sound incredible. Everywhere we 'perform' (pun intended) , I announce Monica as our vocalist & myself merely as our "button pusher".

I am currently going through the thousands of my personal favourite styles, creating multipads from those style sections that grabs my attention, and with the various free software by others available, this is just so easy to do. You should hear some of the results already. Can't wait to get to Onacimus' distortion guitars...

Cheers,

Henni

Sorry Henni, but that is one of the worst performances of Chariots of Fire I have heard in a long time, pretty much all the instruments were wrong and apart from the trumpet (Which sounded like a western) the sounds were of terrible quality. (The Yamaha 950 can do much better than this)

The poor sound may have been due to the recording, (So maybe worth checking out) however I suggest you download the original song and use this as a comparison to re-do it.

Look forward to the rework

Bill

for what its Worth Henni I thought it sounded great . It would be useful if you explained how you produced this track and which parts you played live.

I have heard this song done many times and in no way is this a poor representation. Certainly I have heard much worse and this was good enough to fool some of us into believeing it was pure midi file .

Hi Bill,

Luckily I have no need or craving to play anything in it's original form. If I wanted to, we would rather have used backing tracks like most other 'performers' do. Then the music would sound EXACTLY like the real thing...

In any case, that's Henni's version of that specific tune.

Cheers,

Henni

Nothing special, really.

1. Changed the style instruments & volumes for each part in each different variation to my liking. This was the most time consuming.
2. Hit Intro 3 & press a chord.
3. As soon as finished, select ending 3.
4. When I come to the appropriate section, select break fill.
5. Immediately select intro 2
6. When it's done, select ending 3
7. Break fill
8. Select intro 2.
9. Lastly select ending 2.

I am making multipads for the violin in intro 2 & strings in ending 3. They will not follow chords & will not play contineously. That way I will be able to play this tune for real sounding more or less like the style sections. When done, I'll re-post. For now I'm well advanced into making multipads from various styles. The results are really stunning, much much better than any onboard multipads.

Making Multipads:

1. Select styles 100% compatible for your Yamaha. Next, use Jorgens Style Format Converter to convert all styles to SFF1.
2. Use Michael's Padmaker & make a pad for each of chord1, chord2, pad, phrase1 & phrase2. When done, remove the parts you do not like & combine those you do.

This is a lot of tedeous work, but the results are well worth the effort. I already have some of the most amazing guitar pads, ready for use.

Cheers,

Henni

So, basically you were just pressing buttons and not even playing as I already said.

EXACTLY like I clearly said. In this instance I'm only a button pusher. That tune does not use difficult or complex chords in the least. However, the style lends itself nearly perfectly towards the rest. I've validated my point that the Yamaha can have WOW by pushing buttons mostly. It's not the same for everything we play, but I always utilize the WOW in any style to it's extreme. And it is for this reason that I'm once again biased towards Yamaha for they are best at this sort of thing.

If you buy a car with the latest gadgets, what's the use if you do not make use of it? If it's there, USE it! I've uploaded many, many of our creations over here over many years. It's not always about pushing buttons only. But I have the savvy to use the most of what's available to me. And I try my best NOT to do ANYTHING like the original. If it was good when created, why should I present it in the same way. Then rather listen to the original.

Tell me, as far as "arrangers" go, where do you draw the line to it being "fake"?. Most of what we use is automated. So why not use all the automation you can?

Henni

Well, because I love playing.I will do my best to play as many parts as I can. Otherwise I can just use midis

Awful trumpet

I am kind of disappointed Henni . But not entirely surprised that all you did was push buttons in this track . There is no way that your timing from previous tracks could have improved this much compared to this track . But I am disappointed that you feel that basically playing a midi track that you have revoiced slightly is any kind of reason to take pride in what either you have achieved in this track or the capability of the machine . I really had hoped there was more of you in this "performance " .

You have used the analogy of comparing the gadgets on an arranger to the gadgets in a luxury car for the "wow " factor . Only the major issue I have with that analogy is that most people get the wow factor by actually taking the car for a spin , finding some open road and putting it through its paces . Not simply playing with the electronic cup holder or adjustable seat seat or adjusting the electronic mirrors .

I feel kind of disappointed that you have such an awesome instrument but in this example have used it like an incredibly expensive CD player . I can't find anything encouraging to say other than when you learn to consider an arranger as an actual musical instrument rather than as a gadget you will really understand what making music for others is all about .

There are a couple of times I have been a Little embarrassed to be part of a discussion . This is one of them .

Henni was up front about how he "made" the song. According to his own admissions, he is not a great player and chooses this way to reach his audiences. I see nothing wrong with that, particularly since he introduces himself as a button pusher.
I must agree, Henni, as you progress as a player, I feel you will get even more satisfaction by putting more of "Henni" in the performances!
Carry on with your work and passion!

In a way we are all "button pushers" just operating an automatic device,...lets face it.
Some push better then others it's as simple as that.

Thanx for sharing Henni

Okay then already!

This one is real, live playing using the same style. More kind of what we do. Very versatile style indeed.

Note: I am no good at playing piano, but at least gave it a shot...

Cheers,

Henni

Henni, why not take some lessons to improve your playing. There are alot of good piano courses online you can follow.

Hi Frans,

Good Idea, tx. Don't use it that often though. I only play left hand whilst Monica sings. When we go over into soft instrumentals only I use my guitar.

This is one of our own compositions, taken live in one go, in our native tongue. However, you'll get the idea...

Cheers,

Henni

Sounds good Henni. I even hear some dutch

I hear you Henni and your lastest example definitely has more of you but its a major contrast to what I heard previously and underlines my point . You have courage and I respect that ,and clearly a passion for music which I also respect .

But with all the money you are investing in buying new boards and converting other people's styles ,would it not be an even better investment in yourself to maybe actually learn to play better yourself ? It's not about preferences , your timing is poor to the extent that the chariots of Fire style style cannot make up the difference to the overall sound that you are making . To say otherwise would be to do you a great disservice . Wow factor cannot cover basic playing skills . You can't hear my tone Henni as I write but I assure you I have no desire to undermine you or cause you any negativity or harm when I write . I just think you are missing the cake for snacking on the icing ....

I wish we would all get fat on some good cake !!!

Hi Spalding,

So in my "AnotherTune" example you're saying that my left hand chord timing is terrible? I'm talking left hand chords only, NOT right hand.

I'm sorry to be an embarrasment to you. I guess my way of life removed pride from me. I never for a moment deemed myself as being special or superior.

In any case, I tried. I've given my fair share towards the arranger community over the years...

More of our own compositions recorded live:

https://app.box.com/s/tuwjg348paiq6djrgom6

https://app.box.com/s/p6ni1glcmzq2lmrwxcjp

https://app.box.com/s/i0rx2nbc37eth7766nl7

Cheers,

Henni

No Henni. You're uploading songs quicker than I can type!

My remarks were pertaining to the chariots of Fire style where your timing was poor . The style could not hide this obvious fact . I am sorry if my comments come across as harsh . They are not intended to . If you lived in the UK I am certain we could jam and laugh and make music together . But as a fellow musician I would encourage you to do better and not tell you something sounded great if it did not or tell you your work was good when in reality it was not your work .

Your last song where your wife sang was better . You are not an embarrassment to me . My embarrassment was that I had mistakenly assumed you had played at least one part of the original song you started this post with and I was really surprised that you did not actually play any of it . Not even the lead voice . Not even the left hand chord changes . The entire piece was in fact a chopped up midi file that was already chopped up by someone else and all you did was push the buttons in the correct order .

Henni if that's what gets you excited musically then good for you but I assure you the fun has not even started yet ! Wait till you start playing chords and melodies and chord progressions and improvisation in time . You will wet yourself !!

I just think you are hindering your own musical development by letting the instrument do pretty much all the work . You change instruments because you get bored with the styles and sounds and get another one and repeat the cycle .If you ever went to another church having done your style of performance and they just happened to have a keyboard and wanted someone to lead in worship but you could not set up your instrument ,what would you do ? No button pushing but actual playing is required . As a youth I found myself in that position once and determined in my heart that I would learn to play . It was the best decision of my life next to marrying my gorgeous wife ! But don't tell her I said that ......

Ha!

I just realized that some have purposefully been set up to discredit me in any way they can. And I now realize why.

Not to worry, I'll stick with Yamaha instead. To tell the truth, I'll even consider swapping my full blown Ajamsonic Audya with bag for a PSR S970 with case or bag if the other party pays for shipping both ways & any other costs involved. Now here's a good deal for someone who wants a TOTL instead.

I have peace again.

Henni

Take your meds......NOW!



chas

Henni, I don't think that is right, but maybe you know something I don't. I don't believe anyone really cares what brand arranger the others use. I like 'em all, just some better than others.

You might be right Don,

In all the years I've never received flak like I do recently, and I've posted a lot of music over here before. And my playing skills did not grow worse over these years, so what's up all of a sudden?

In any case, I'd rather push buttons on a Yamaha for now. I just listened to all my own compositions - there are a few of them lying around on my hard drives. I'm not saying they're special. But in each of those I made extensive use of intro's & endings as those things somehow inspire me to create.

The Audya will be fantastic in the right hands - but those hands are no longer mine. I need those awesome intros & endings - period!

I'll stop posting more music & other stuff. I always wondered why all do not make all their mods & findings & creations available to all. I think I now know why.

Cheers,

Henni

Henni, it's like you are not even reading our comments. We are actually trying to help you, but you can't see it that way.

Yes, it is not I don't like the trumpet because it is a Yamaha but because it just don't sound right in that song/style.

buildtofly@yahoo.com

Clearly I have offended you . I apologise without reservation .

I deliberately have not commented on yours and other forum members contributions from time to time in the past because I have always lived by the principle "if you can't say something to help don't say snything at all " . So many times I have just listened to someone's work and then moved on to the next subject on the forum because there was little I could say to help.

I thought my comments were being constructive here . Perhaps I misjudged this instance and will learn from it . I mistook your original post as something you had actually created /played and as you will see in my initial comments I was very encouraging because of what I heard and thought came from you .

If nothing else I have learned that everyone has the right to enjoy music in their own way and if I have tried to dictate to you in anyway how you should enjoy making / creating music again I apologise . I hope we are good here ?

Hi Spalding & others,

No apologies needed. I just never realized I was THAT bad. So now that I do, I'll not post any more songs. I'll keep my future findings to myself & most prob also all my future style & multipad creations. Thank you for all the advice. I really appreciate. I'm normally totally over enthusiastic about most things in life & it shows! Sometimes it helps others, sometimes it offends...

Cheers,

Henni

Like Spalding, and working on the same principle, I rarely comment on contributions on the forum.

Henni, everyone is not as good as they could be. So the no. 1 requirement is to listen to yourself and be your own harshest critic, then go from there. The other no. 1 requirement is enthusiasm - and you already have that. Good luck.

Let�s see��another member wrote in a recent post: �The people here are generally reluctant to point out negatives in a performance.�

So why did Henni deserve this crucifixion when other members posted sub-standard demo�s and have been applauded via the �hand�s clapping� or the �thumbs up� icons?

And then you had the member who had two identities but was pardoned because he�s a home town boy.

And the �phony baloney� Korg demo�s (right out of the box) that were posted. Another free pass by loyal fans.

It appears that the local, long time regular members get a free pass and folks like Henni get ripped apart.

Now I really don�t even understand the reasons this happened, what is the plot or the sub-plot? What did he do that was SO bad? I read the posts every day, and don�t remember Henni being viewed as an �outlaw� until now. But he apparently upset someone enough to let the dogs loose on him. Then again, that�s easy enough to do nowadays, �cause you can just say your name and offend someone. What happened to tolerance and manners?

Though I never thought much about it, I personally respect what he�s doing down there with the music whether he�s playing a piece of string or a TOTL washboard. Live and let live I say (except when you try and pass off a phony demo).

Is it possible favoritism has permeated this room? That if you�re not a member of the �club,� then you get torn apart by the lions?

MARK

I truly don't believe that is the case Mark. I think there was a great deal of miscommunication, and it sorted of escalated.
It's true most critiques here are positive and encouraging and that's o.k. And, there are some of us who WANT to have our errors or shortcoming pointed out, in case we aren't already aware of them.
Henni is a great human in my opinion, but then I don't know of anyone who hangs out here regularly who isn't.
Yes some years ago DNJ was trying to be clever and/or funny and it went over the line. But let me tell you, if one of us called him at midnight tonight needing something, he would bust his ass trying to help, even if he didn't know the person.
Personally, if I find something I think is pretty bad, I will not comment, but I sometimes privately communicate with the person if I think I can help.
A great example of taking criticism correctly is Col. He started posting vocals a year or two ago and they weren't very good. We didn't say, Col your vocals stink, but we did make suggestions as to how they could improve. You oughta hear 'em now! He has a fantastic voice and is getting better day by day!
I've had a couple of the guys tell me some of the stuff I've posted lately is not up to par. I already knew that, but I appreciate their reinforcing what I was hearing.
We are all communicating in English here, but remember English is not the first language for many of our members and it is easy to miss-communicate.
In fact from now on I will speak Spanish, or maybe even Australian. No wait I don't know much Spanish. Pretty fluent in Australian though mate!

I think I made too many noises lately about Yamaha versus .... If you cannot win against the opposition, then attempt to discredit them. If you succeed, then their future opinions counts for nothing. This is the newest tactic being applied in many court cases today.

Henni

I didn't read all the post, I don't think I have too, anyhow, I liked it, GREAT JOB!

[/quote]
I think I made too many noises lately about Yamaha versus .... If you cannot win against the opposition, then attempt to discredit them. If you succeed, then their future opinions counts for nothing. This is the newest tactic being applied in many court cases today.

Henni [/quote]

I think I made too many noises lately about Yamaha versus Ketron. That's what you want to imply?

WOW! (pardon the pun) That's quite an accusation. Pretty farfetched, if I may say so. It doesn't even make sense since DonM is the only one of the posters that has a Ketron (AWESOME...remember?). Apart from Bill, Spalding, and Vangelis, all others are actually Yamaha owners.

Time to come back to reality.

I stand by what I said. Anyway, this thread has served it's unusefulness. It will only become ugly if continued. If you want a fight, don't pick me because sure as hell you're going to get it. I'm not the meek & timid kind & I'm done with this topic. Tx for all the feedback, good or not so good. Life goes on...

And just so you know - I said as of late that the instrument you refer to is indeed AWESOME in the right hands. You should go & read my posts more thoroughly before you make comments like these. Don't you dare take what I said out of context. And no need for you to also come & lay your little uncalled for egg over here.

There'll be no more contributions from me on this topic. If Nigel does not lock it, you'll be talking to yourselves from here onwards.

Spalding, we are good. I did not refer to you at all. But this previous "AWESOME" remark is uncalled for & not true at all.

Henni

Now I am confused ??

I thought we were good here Henni ?

you said :

" Hi Spalding & others,

No apologies needed. I just never realized I was THAT bad. So now that I do, I'll not post any more songs. I'll keep my future findings to myself & most prob also all my future style & multipad creations. Thank you for all the advice. I really appreciate. I'm normally totally over enthusiastic about most things in life & it shows! Sometimes it helps others, sometimes it offends...

Cheers,"

Do you really feel that you/your music has been crucified here ?now you consider me to be your opposition ??? and that my commnets along with others were driven because of some notion that we dislike your new found love for yamaha ????? seriously Henni is that what you believe ????.

listen my email address is in my profile . If you want to talk things over with me then lets do that . We are grwn men here.

However I want to make this bit public as I made commnets about your music publically.

What ever you believe please don't feel that I, or anyone who has commented on this thread is in anyway your opposition. We are musicians/entertainers/ hobbyists .

And I have read and re read this thread to see where anyone has said somethng deliberately mean or inacurate or disparaging or disrespectful. I dont see it , however I dont doubt how you clearly feel. I would never have commented at all on your work had I not made the mistake of believing the music you originally posted had not in fact had anything to do with you other than pressing some buttons. If you are satisfied with this level of effort in your music making I am not here to berate you because of it. Enjoy making music however you make it. But honestly , there is a world of difference between making music this way and actually playing a musicall instrument in a traditional way. I would encourage you to move out from your comfort zone a little and see what happens.

Finally ,I don't care whether you push the buttons of a Ketron, Korg Yamaha or Casio. Push to your hearts content. :-)

I have pointed out that your timing is suspect. If that does not ring true with you then ignore my comment as it clearly cannot help and that's cool by me. But I want to be clear with you that I only tried to encourage you and not discourage you. Thats what musicians and hobbyist on this forum have always done and will always do. its for you to take from the commnets the bits that can help and ignore the bits that dont.

Ok ?

Spalding,

I did not refer to you in the least in my previous post & no, you are not my opposition. You gave me good advice which I take.

Just like many over here, I also change my mind over time. What's "AWESOME" today might be replaced by something I find more "AWESOME" later on. And then I'll clearly state my reasons for my newly found opinion as I did in this regard. I even posted many demo recordings of the styles to illustrate my latest reasoning. At least one over here went back to his favourite arranger after I did so, so I'm certainly not alone in my opinion.

And like many said so often before, what impresses one person might not do it for some of the rest. We all have our different nieches & preferences. I am certainly no exception to this rule.

So yes, my timing is off. But then I listened to many contributions by others that did not impress me at all. Not that it is musically incorrect, but not the way I like to hear things. I never commented on those as I do not urinate on other's dreams. If you take away any individual's dreams, you take away his/her future.

Henni

Henni, where do you get all this?
Who is urinating on your dreams??
This sounds more like some soap opera or some reality show.
I don't think anyone was harsh or rude .
Why not help each other and actually really say what honestly what we think.
I posted few times and I even said who ever comments to be honest.Why not hear someone else's perspective? Likes and dislikes.
It's not like we are in kindergarten .Or maybe we are, all we have to say is you are doing good, great job, wonderful. ..Just so kids feelings don't get hurt. I don't get it.

Henni, I listened to this the day you posted it.I thoughtyou did an amazing job on the song. After days of reading pros and cons to the song and your style of how you created your take on Chariots, its still amazing. I replayed this again full bore loud 4 speakers 2000watts and I still think it is as close to the original, but my only critique is the trumpet is to verbrato. As I said, still well done Rustykeys

Tx Rustykeys,

That is a GREAT style indeed! Now anyone can perform that brilliant tune with ease. I'll change the trumpet to something more suitable. I have a specific song in mind for that style & might even play it in the song like I did for the demo. Just tune the piano voice down a tad.

Henni

Hola Senor Mason,

Es necesario que yo hablo espa�ol ahora, porque a partir del lunes a las ocho de la ma�ana, voy a estar hablando espa�ol solamente. That translates to "starting at 8 o'clock on Monday morning I will be speaking Spanish only, so I wanted to wean you into the Spanish language.





Senor Don.....the worst of your demo's is still better than some that I've heard.



Aha....now for the serious stuff. The truth is "some years ago," DNJ was trying to be "deceitful" (not clever or funny) and make fools out of the rest of the members. That's the only way I see it. And if you can count on him to bust his a** to help you in a clinch, that doesn't give you license to toy with other people like they were kids.

I've always said you could do anything in the world you want to do....as long as it doesn't affect other people!

Personally, I like Donny...he's an interesting study and a rather likeable person otherwise. But please, I didn't appreciate Donny talking down to me attempting to defend a counterfeit demo! I think I deserve more respect than what I was given there.

MARK