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#405577 - 07/26/15 08:34 AM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: spalding1968]
Marcus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
Most arranger players don't use their Vocal Harmonizers anyway, so it is not overused or overrated. Few that do use it can miss-use it. None of the TOTL arrangers have great VH processors, but can be handy for some songs and registrations.

I've used VoiceLive 2 Extreme, for quality harmonies of my own voice. However, the best unit for dynamics and quality gender bending is Roland in their VP-770 and the small VP-7 unit. I wish Roland continued to develop the VP-7, but decided to discontinue it.

For lack of dynamics, common mistakes are no mic technique, especially poor quality headsets at a fixed distance. Second mistake is using fixed harmony, for just a bland fixed harmonic intervals throughout your songs.

At least the arranger onboard VH can pickup your complex chords and give you the interesting harmonies and chord accuracy. Portable units therefore would give you more interesting harmonies matching your keyboard chords via midi control and minimize using the fixed harmony setting or having to fuss to setup the correct key.

In the case of the VP-7, dynamics interpreted through your playing technique is sent live to the VP-7 at whatever midi channel you choose. Besides your own voice and mic technique, the Vocal Designer/Vocoder dynamics will respond to changes in the microphone input volume and can be adjusted over a range of seven levels.

Just these two user changes can dramatically improve the dynamics in your VH renderings, and this is before even adding Roland's Variation Sounds in Variation mode for more added dynamics to your own voice.

Rather than the Roland VP-7 giving you accurate harmony intervals to your own voice from the chord data sent from your playing, your actual notes played become the chosen harmonies and with Roland's great presets (in this mode) different gender and choir combinations are now added to your original voice.

None of the Roland demos demonstrate this mode, yet it is the best I have heard from any VH processor. Roland, from their older VP-550, has developed this nice organic feel and gender authenticity to the various choir presets. Roland killed these settings by optimizing their fixed presets settings. Depends on your own voice, but professional players like, Don Lewis makes his voice sound like an authentic southern gospel choir. All your playing technique and fingered notes, even midi bass notes(feet)information are translated to the choir or chorus parts.

VP-7 Variation Mode preset descriptions
1) Male & Female (Female Choir button) - A mixed choir with independent male and female parts. Sparse harmony will produce a three- dimensional sound that is thicker than "Classic". Female voices sing the high range, and the male voices sing the low range. Female voices at the right on the stereo field, and the male voices are heard on the left.

2) Kids Choir 2 (Kids Choir button) - Unlike the mixed choir, the female parts is sung by young boys whose voices have not yet changed. Compared to the mixed choir, this produces a more transparent sound. The high range is sung by young boys, and the low range by youths.

3) Classic (Gregorian Choir button) - This is a large chorus suitable for classic music. The sound is clear, making it suitable when you want the lyrics to be heard.

4) Jazz Scat 2 (Jazz Scat button) - This is the jazz scat sound. Since this is an expressive and crisp sound, it's suitable for songs with rapid passages, or for scat singing. By playing the keyboard strongly while you sing, you can switch to a "fall" note.

5) Background (Duet button) - This is the sound of a simple backing chorus. It produces a clear-sounding chorus of a small number of people, maintaining a sense of presence even in the background.

6) Pop (Trio 1 button) - This is a small chorus that is broadly useful with popular music or with songs containing rapid passages. The sound is clear, making it suitable for songs in which you want the lyrics to be heard.

7) Gospel (Trio 2 button) - This is a chorus with the distinctive performances techniques and irregularities that are characteristic of gospel music. It is suitable for jazz or gospel.

I have used the Shure SM58 or a Samson dynamic mic for playing out for convenience , plus the VP-7 has phantom, but for home studio I use a nice quality tube mic to add warmth and adds subtle sympathetic harmonics at higher vocal levels to enhance the organic characteristics of the VP-7 variation sound, for even more authentic dynamic changes.

The Roland VP-7 Ambiance (reverb) is pretty good and the stereo output matches perfectly with my Tyros 5 AUX-IN or to the T5's Hard Disk Recorder along with the Tyros 5 sounds. For even more variation and dynamics, one or both of the VP-7's audio output can be fed back into the Tyros 5 mic input to take advantage of the high end DPS effects or simple harmony splits using VH2, like doubling the VP-7 output, or doubling the choir sound....or add the ultra realistic "Real Reverb" DPS for more authentic dynamics.

Your VH doesn't have to be bland or lack dynamics. The Yamaha VH2 is no worse than the other TOTL arrangers. Add the dynamics of a TOTL arranger like the Tyros 5 and add your favorite VH unit, you won't be bored or lack dynamics.

Regards, Marcus
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#405584 - 07/26/15 09:36 AM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Marcus]
Marcus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
I found one of Don Lewis's older videos. The single VP-7 unit is vastly improved over the old VP-550 keyboard and weights less than 2 lbs.

Marcus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TdQwOUGaFs
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#405598 - 07/26/15 10:08 AM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14499
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
LOVE IT! Notice the incredible vocal control he utilizes.

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (07/26/15 10:09 AM)
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#405600 - 07/26/15 10:38 AM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40700
Who wants to carry around another kb in a OMB act just for VH? might be ok for studio work playing in Vocoder mode..


Edited by Dnj (07/26/15 10:39 AM)

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#405635 - 07/26/15 06:10 PM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Dnj]
Marcus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Who wants to carry around another kb in a OMB act just for VH? might be ok for studio work playing in Vocoder mode..


That Lewis video is few years old. There has since been the VP-770 keyboard and lastly the VP-7 module with improvements to the VH engine. I believe Roland developed the original variphrase technology, and their expertise transferred over nicely to their VP products. Far ahead of Yamaha, Korg (T C Helicon), Digitech in regards to the gender and pitch stretching technologies. Virtually no warble or digital artifacts in the processing on the latest VP -7 unit. The VP-7 choir and Jazz Scat voices are not that shabby either, and can play over, layered on top of any of the Tyros 5 sounds.

The point is, you can get even better results with the little 2 lb VP-7 unit in variation mode, that was carried over from the previous VP-keyboards.

Setting the Tyros 5 to AI Full Keyboard fingering for your chords, you can still run full (vocoder) variation mode and still control your style play, multipads, ensemble, plus switch on-the-fly during a song to Human Voice/Vocal designer mode on the VP-7 or that robotic vocoder mode.

Not only for studio, but for live performances. I have a little aluminum bracket that fits into the Tyros 5 speaker mounting holes that screws onto the mounting holes on the less than 1 KG VP-7 unit. What is more portable than that, plus in direct visual range from your playing position and easy to manage the controls.

For a gig, one Tyros 5, one VP-7, good mic and stand, and proper powered speaker configuration for the venue size. No second keyboard or laptops.

Marcus
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#405636 - 07/26/15 07:33 PM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Dnj]
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
I couldn't agree with Gary more. You have to sing with a pure voice, as little vibrato as possible and directly into the mic without overloading it. It requires practice, but I get great results even on the S 950. After awhile it becomes automatic. Just keep working at it.

Joe
_________________________
PSR S950, PSR S900, Roland RD 700, Yamaha C3 6'Grand, Sennheiser E 935 mic, several recording mics including a Neuman U 87, Bose L1 Compact, Roland VS 2480 24 Track Recorder
Joe Ayala

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#405687 - 07/27/15 12:59 PM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14499
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Just did this on the S-950 using an onboard style, Sennheiser E-855, one shot deal, onboard USB recorder, and the onboard Standard Male Quartet harmony. For you youngsters, the song was originally done by Gene Autry and the Sons Of The Pioneers.

Cool Water

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#405691 - 07/27/15 01:44 PM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15888
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Well, it was written by Bob Nolan, and Vaughn Monroe with the Sons of the Pioneers had the biggest hit with it.
Never heard Gene do it, but he may have. Love Gene Autry's voice. I think Roy Rogers may have done it too.
As far as the VH, I still think it's a little muddy in the lower parts in some places. But the mud may well be in my ears.
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DonM

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#405705 - 07/27/15 03:37 PM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: Dnj]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1232
Loc: United Kingdom
It's funny that the vocal harmoniser as has been demonstrated here sounds robotic and the advice given to use it properly involves singing without using modulation in your voice . Just like a robot !

I am not convinced of the usefulness of a harmoniser but I have been spoiled by singing with great real singers . I don't think I can be convinced on this .

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#405707 - 07/27/15 04:13 PM Re: Yamaha Tyros 5 Vocal Harmony Example Demo [Re: spalding1968]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40700


headphone

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