Wow!! what amazing tribute to Whitney....
the last part in this cover is fantastic!

Maybe it's my shot to Hell hearing, but to be honest, Donny, her diction early on in the song seemed to be almost unintelligible. While it did improve somewhat during the later segments of the song, it still was not at all good, at least for my hearing range. That said, she does has a very powerful voice and a wide range, but no where near the quality of Whitney Houston's.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary you are definitely the minority here,...but I respect your opinion even with your shot hearing......I didn't post it to be a comparison to Whitney of which there is NO comparison by anyone I ever heard,....
that said this girl does an outstanding job on this song.

Fantastic voice for sure. I sorta like to hear the melody at least once as it was written though.
She ain't Dolly Parton for sure, closer to Whitney!

Donny, she has a great voice - no question about it. It's her diction, IMO, that seems to be lacking quality - big difference.

Gary

Nice find, Donny. Glad you've got the talent and musical sensibilities to recognize the enormous talent here and not sweat the petty stuff....even if it were true. Her near-perfect pitch, vocal control, and creative phrasing is fantastic. Let's be grateful none of us is being compared to the 'original' when we're doing covers. JMO.

chas

You got that right!

Good singer for that style, but too emotive for my tastes. All the vocal gyrations and embellishments remind me of those who try to sing the national anthem in such a way that it becomes unrecognizable. Let’s not get too far from the melody.

Donny,

I think what Gary is referring to is the unnecessary vocal gymnastics. e.g.

you...ooh....ooh......uh

This type of singing is pretty common in the modern Rhythm and Blues genre, which is nothing like the Wilson Pickett, James Brown, Stevie Winwood R&B that we grew up with.

Can you imagine the great singers of our day singing ly.....ah.....ah......uh...ike that?

God Bless,
Don

I think melisma (vocal gyrations) can be cool (especially in jazz and/or gospel...in pop, not so much) but many times it prevents the natural beauty of the song's melody from getting through, as it does in the above example, in my opinion, of course.

Perhaps some singers like to think it shows their emotional involvement in the song, and how it exhibits their vocal control, but, for this listener, most times, all melisma does is interfere with the flow of the lyrics, melody, sometimes even the rhythm itself.

Ian







Ian

Ian the same goes for "Playing an Instrument Gyration" over using emotions.....
I see that all the time it's a weird Phenomenon and looks so fake most of the time..

I look at it this way...just because some can pull off these intricate phrasings (and that includes instrumentalists like Kenny G for example), doesn't mean that they have to use, or, in most cases, overuse them.

Or, in other words, give someone a hammer, and they will find that everything they run into needs hammering.

Ian

Uh, I didn't grow up with "Stevie Winwood". Maybe you meant "Steve Wonder" . But in general, you are correct. The problem here is that what you are criticizing is a vocal STYLE which you either don't like, don't feel, or don't understand (or all three). The young lady clearly has near-perfect pitch, an incredible vocal range, flawless timing, and that most important quality for singing this type of song, SOUL.

As far as being too "emotive" or overdoing the "vocal gyrations", I'd rather HAVE the skills (with the ability to 'dial it back') than to not have it, producing endless streams of bland, soulless renditions of bland, soulless songs.

How quickly we forget that (our response to) music is a subjective thing shaped by culture, familiarity, and OUR OWN ABILITY TO FEEL EMOTION (remember the initial reaction to Elvis from the 'mainstream'). I was just listening to Christina Agulera's version of Leon Russel's "A song for you" with Herbie Hancock. Most would agree that she is an incredible singer (else Herbie wouldn't be working with her). There are enough 'vocal gyrations' there to create a tidal wave, but I think she captures the spirit of the song perfectly. Sure, 'different strokes for different folks', but for ME, I hesitate to criticize a vocal performance based on the singer's choice of a style I'm either not familiar with or not comfortable with. JMO.

chas

I have to agree with Chas.........

If I posted it & listen without the visual you wouldn't have these comments ...after all who are we to judge anyway?

Donny, your first instinct was to like this performance. Don't be a politician and start 'walking it back'. Stick with your 'gut' and don't be swayed by those who would have you doubting your own musical sensibilities. You're a talented guy and it takes one to know one. It's a lot easier to criticize than to do.

chas

Well said Chas....I just wanted to give two examples so that all aspects are out in the open. I stand behind my initial opinion that this girls can sing her Butt off!! ....NUFF SAID!!

Great vocals for sure . No need to over analyse this .

This beautiful girl took this song and she made it her own.Her vocal quality is outstanding,also the whole arrangment of the song is so beautiful. Definitely not a retirement home entertainment material.Not that anything is wrong with that.

Ian has given me the correct musical term for this. In my opinion, as a singer who enjoys pretty much all styles of music "melisma" is as overused in modern music as "auto tune", first introduced to us by Cher and now pushed at us by many of the hip hop and modern R&B singers.

And Charles if you grew up in the 60's you must have missed Britain's Steve Winwood and His Spencer Davis Band...........

"Gimme Some Lovin"
"Keep On Runnin"
"Somebody Help Me"

You can show emotion by varying timbre, volume and dynamics. You don't need to slide up and down all over the scale on one syllable to create interest in your music.
I will admit that probably many people enjoy this. But I certainly don't.

Now don't get your back up my friend!

God Bless,
Don

Don't worry, Don. My back is not up. As far as I'm concerned, your opinion is just as valid (for you) as mine is (for me). But your statement that "...many people enjoy this.....but I certainly don't" just goes to prove my point about the subjectivity of music. Many people don't like jazz (and especially jazz improvisation) because it demands more of them than they're willing to invest. Others dislike Country 'cause they think it's 'hokey', corny, or simplistic. That's fair. My opinion is that yes, some jazz IS too complex to just relax and enjoy and some Country IS just too darn hokey. But that doesn't mean that it applies to All Jazz and ALL Country. I'm a Jazz lover, but not all forms and certainly not all tunes. I'm not a big fan of Country music but some of my favorite tunes and artists (Willie Nelson) are from that genre' (plus, I watch every episode of NASHVILLE). But just as 'one man's trash is another man's treasure', one man's 'melisma' is another man's creative and expressive phrasing'. Like I said before, 'different strokes......'.

On the other thing, yes, I'm very familiar with Steve Winwood but have never heard him referred to as 'Stevie' or for that matter, associated with ol' school R&B. Now Stevie WONDER, on the other hand....... Actually, I was just teasing, kidding you on what I perceived as an ol' man's 'brain fart'. Contrary to popular belief (on this board), my back is rarely up, but if I have a difference of opinion about something as subjective as music, I am not shy about expressing it. Look, I can't stand the sight, taste, or even smell of broccoli.....but that doesn't mean it's bad, just not for me.

chas

It’s clear that people are posting their opinions. Yes, she is good, but by what criteria do we make that decision she is good or not good. Everyone has their own criteria that they judge by.

When a question was asked, “Why did they think that Frank Sinatra was a great singer? I loved the answer --- “Because you can understand every word he is singing. You walked away understanding the story.

Most singer today are singing notes, or better still what they can do to notes; as opposed to the lyric which expressed the emotion. At my church, 17,000 strong, the younger people love the music – I mean they love it. I do my best to listen to the lead singer after they have taken the note up, down, and sideways. Then I turn to my wife asking her what word did the singer just sing.

I remember asking, what I considered a singer what method did she learn a song. Her replied stayed with me. “I study the lyric until I begin feel the story; what the writer was trying to say. Then I go and find out what the melody was all about:. WOW, great.

Just another opinion, John C.

This post and it's comments remind me of years ago arguing with a person who tried to convince me that Johnny Cash and Kris Kristofferson where to two greatest singers who ever lived. "NUFF SAID." Many people, including entertainers are not capable of carrying a tune in a bucket. It's a fact! The truth hurts, sometimes!

I'm sorry now that I chimed in on this thread. It was just my opinion based upon what I heard with my aging ears. When so many folks claimed she had a phenomenal voice, I went upstairs, put in my hearing aid and listened again. It sounded the same. My heroes in the world of music begin with Mel Torme, whom I considered one of the best singers ever. For me, this was closely followed by the mellow tones of Elvis, Sinatra, Judy Garland, Streisand, Whitney Houston, Marty Robbins, Dean Martin, Mario Lanza, and a host of other greats that told wonderful stories with their songs. And, as stated above, you could easily understand every word they sang. Ironically, many of them took a diction course from a very famous lady in Nashville, TN. I read a story about her in a Nashville magazine, and was really impressed at the number of very famous singers that she coached.

I listened to that song Donny posted at least four times. Each time it sounded, at least to me, exactly the same. The lady, as I stated above, has an incredibly powerful voice, her range is fantastic, but her diction is, IMO, not up to par. To me, it's not about the way she sings as much as it is that the beautiful story within the song seems to be lost to what I consider nonsensical vocal inflections. If someone were to sing Over The Rainbow like that I would turn off the song. When I was six years old I fell in love with Dorothy from The Wizard Of Oz because of the way she sang that song. That song still brings tears to my eyes today, but for another reason. When I saw my daughter lying in the University of Maryland Shock Trauma Unit, her head in a halo to support her broken neck, her left leg and arm both in casts with stainless steel pins protruding through the cast, an endotrachael tube in her throat, an NG tube in her nose, and bandages everywhere you looked, Over The Rainbow played in my mind. I instantly recalled every word of that song, and still hear the voice of Judy Garland singing it, regardless of who is actually singing it.

Now, I believe I AM a damned good judge of singers. After all, I'm been a singer for more than six decades, and I've been a professional singer, one that gets paid to sing and play, since 1958. My voice has been heard on both radio and TV as voice overs for car commercials, and as a newscaster. I'll probably never be a judge on American Idol, America's Got Talent, etc..., but I sincerely believe that I'm a pretty damned good judge of vocal quality.

Yeah, maybe I'm old and cantankerous, but ya know, I'm proud of it,

Gary

Love both Stevie Wonder and Steve Winwood
<BR>

Nigel,

It appears he is using a Sequential Circuits Prophet 10, which was a dual manual Prophet 5 (actually two Prophet 5's in one case) and he's using nearly the same patch as he used on both Sundown Slowdown and Valerie.

His Hammond organ work is also very tasty (usually simple but very effective) and he's not too shabby on the guitar as well.

I believe some of Stevie Wonder's best work was when he was using the Yamaha GX-1 (he called it his "Dream Machine") on his "Songs In The Key Of Life" album, and one of its many uses was to get a cool string section effect on Village Ghetto Land.

I was very fortunate to get an opportunity to play the legendary GX-1 at Yamaha's Head Office back when I was a teacher in the Electone School, and, although I didn't get to play a Prophet 10, I did get to use a beautifully well maintained (and far more common) Prophet 5 for a few months when doing recording sessions at a studio in Newfoundland.

Back in the day, these instruments (and their derivatives) were on many top albums and used by some very notable (and very capable) players.

The GX-1 weighed over 600 lbs (not including the 200 lb pedal board), certainly not something a One Man Band player would be schlepping around without the help of several strong roadies and a very big van, not to mention paying the huge price tag of $50,000 (in 1980's dollars).

A Prophet 10 was a far more svelte 150 lbs, but didn't have a drum machine (analog) like the GX-1.

Man, I don't know how wandered into this stuff since the post was initially about vocals , but, I suppose singers (and songwriters) will reap the benefits of having great backing instruments.

Ian

I don't know if being "old and cantankerous" is something to be proud of. To me, it's just a way of asking people to overlook or excuse bad behavior, bad decisions, bad judgment, etc. based on the number of years you've managed to clock. Older doesn't always mean wiser, if fact, it seldom does. In any case, experience and longevity still doesn't trump facts.

It seems no matter how many times it's repeated, some people still can't seem to get the fact that taste in music is a SUBJECTIVE thing and that their views or opinions are no more valid than anyone else's. Comparing an amateur performance on YouTube to the greatest singers in the world hardly seems like the proper criteria for determining whether that performance is good or bad. Personally, I had no trouble understanding the words - maybe it was because I already knew the words, or maybe I was just too busy listening to the WHOLE performance as opposed to nitpicking. Joe Cocker is one of my favorite singers yet I usually can only understand about 50% of his lyrics, especially on up-tempo tunes. I would never compare him to Frank Sinatra or Tony Bennett (whom I happen to like better than Sinatra) because they are into a totally different bag. But for me, Joe Cocker brings something else to the table (certainly not diction ) that makes me like his music....and in the end, isn't that all that counts?

Someone once said, "if you come across a dog that can talk, you don't question his grammar"....or something to that effect. I think it's perfectly okay to question the young lady's diction, but I just don't think that that's enough (or that it was bad enough) to shoot down the entire performance. After all, diction can be taught, talent can't.

chas

Chas, when I stated I was "Old and cantankerous," obviously, I was being facetious. If anything, my personality is exactly the opposite, and anyone that I've met on this and other forums will tell you that's the case, both online and in person.

I did not trash her entire performance, and in fact, if you go back and reread my statements, you will see that I applauded her vocal attributes, of which IMO, diction was not one of them. For the same reason, I do not like Joe Crocker's vocals, but I do like some of his songs, and there a few that I perform regularly.

I believe that every performer should bring the entire package to the forefront when performing a song, including diction. To me, this segment of the performance is what clarifies the story within the song, allowing the vocalist to communicate that song's story to his or her audience.

Now, because we disagree on this singer's vocal attributes, does this mean you're not going meet up with along the Intra Coastal Waterway this fall and tilt a few beers aboard the sailboat?

Gary

Make that beer a nice Merlot and you've got a deal. Heck, I'll even try one of those margaritas, but only on a full stomach .

chas

You have a deal!

Gary

WOW ... just got a chance to listen to this amazing voice ... perhaps it is because I know the song, but even with 25%+ loss of hearing in my right ear, I understood every word ...
I am happy that I now know the right terminology for this vocal practice, as I usually to refer to it as 'vocal histrionics', and at the risk of offending my Canadian friends, I always felt the biggest violator is Celine Dion ...
Since Ms. Houston's is the version I've heard the most (and my personal preference), I kind of expect the song to be sung in this style, and at least this young lady NAILED it ...

double post ... sorry ...

Kris (off key) Kristofferson, Johnny (out of tune) Cash, Dean (extremely uncontrollable vibrato) Martin and Boxcar Willie are the greatest vocalist that ever lived. If you don't believe me count their record sales against Ella Fitzella, Mel Torme, Johnny Hartman, Billie Holiday, and the list goes on and on. I mean how else can you tell who are the best singers if you're not going to count sales and the big bucks they make. So the top of the list for best vocalist just has to be, Elvis, Beatles, and the list goes on and on. What a screwed up society we have the pleasure of belonging too. Oh, and the best "MUSIC" in the history of mankind, has to be "RAP" especially the ones that use M%#*er F(*@$r the most. Right? What do you think?

Hey Boo, your post inspired me to check out Boxcar Willie. God, I wish I could get that 5 minutes back.



chas

It is said that good musicians execute their music, while bad ones murder it.

Ian

Let's talk about Melisma

I like Tony Monaco's playing...he's no Jimmy Smith, but, by gosh, he's pretty darn good.

"Melisma"...the word sounds like some sort of skin disease.

I think melisma works in some tunes (especially gospel, R&B and jazz), and I can tolerate it in pop tunes if used in moderation.

Many people put great store by technique. They love the tricks. Not surprising, especially if you are at an age and level that admires those kind of things - fast cars, showy playing/singing - two sides of the same coin.

But, some will have an awakening at some point. They admire great technique, but expect it to be in the service of a musical vision. Technique without musicality lacks soul.


Ian