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#400956 - 03/29/15 02:20 PM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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#400958 - 03/29/15 02:40 PM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: KORG80]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: KORG80
And Charles if you grew up in the 60's you must have missed Britain's Steve Winwood and His Spencer Davis Band...........

"Gimme Some Lovin"
"Keep On Runnin"
"Somebody Help Me"

You can show emotion by varying timbre, volume and dynamics. You don't need to slide up and down all over the scale on one syllable to create interest in your music.
I will admit that probably many people enjoy this. But I certainly don't.

Now don't get your back up my friend!



Don't worry, Don. My back is not up. As far as I'm concerned, your opinion is just as valid (for you) as mine is (for me). But your statement that "...many people enjoy this.....but I certainly don't" just goes to prove my point about the subjectivity of music. Many people don't like jazz (and especially jazz improvisation) because it demands more of them than they're willing to invest. Others dislike Country 'cause they think it's 'hokey', corny, or simplistic. That's fair. My opinion is that yes, some jazz IS too complex to just relax and enjoy and some Country IS just too darn hokey. But that doesn't mean that it applies to All Jazz and ALL Country. I'm a Jazz lover, but not all forms and certainly not all tunes. I'm not a big fan of Country music but some of my favorite tunes and artists (Willie Nelson) are from that genre' (plus, I watch every episode of NASHVILLE). But just as 'one man's trash is another man's treasure', one man's 'melisma' is another man's creative and expressive phrasing'. Like I said before, 'different strokes......'.

On the other thing, yes, I'm very familiar with Steve Winwood but have never heard him referred to as 'Stevie' or for that matter, associated with ol' school R&B. Now Stevie WONDER, on the other hand....... Actually, I was just teasing, kidding you on what I perceived as an ol' man's 'brain fart'. Contrary to popular belief (on this board), my back is rarely up, but if I have a difference of opinion about something as subjective as music, I am not shy about expressing it. Look, I can't stand the sight, taste, or even smell of broccoli.....but that doesn't mean it's bad, just not for me.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#400959 - 03/29/15 03:20 PM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: KORG80]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
It’s clear that people are posting their opinions. Yes, she is good, but by what criteria do we make that decision she is good or not good. Everyone has their own criteria that they judge by.

When a question was asked, “Why did they think that Frank Sinatra was a great singer? I loved the answer --- “Because you can understand every word he is singing. You walked away understanding the story.

Most singer today are singing notes, or better still what they can do to notes; as opposed to the lyric which expressed the emotion. At my church, 17,000 strong, the younger people love the music – I mean they love it. I do my best to listen to the lead singer after they have taken the note up, down, and sideways. Then I turn to my wife asking her what word did the singer just sing.

I remember asking, what I considered a singer what method did she learn a song. Her replied stayed with me. “I study the lyric until I begin feel the story; what the writer was trying to say. Then I go and find out what the melody was all about:. WOW, great.

Just another opinion, John C.

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#400961 - 03/29/15 04:34 PM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
cool2


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#400963 - 03/29/15 07:39 PM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: Dnj]
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
This post and it's comments remind me of years ago arguing with a person who tried to convince me that Johnny Cash and Kris Kristofferson where to two greatest singers who ever lived. "NUFF SAID." Many people, including entertainers are not capable of carrying a tune in a bucket. It's a fact! The truth hurts, sometimes!
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#400964 - 03/29/15 08:20 PM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I'm sorry now that I chimed in on this thread. It was just my opinion based upon what I heard with my aging ears. When so many folks claimed she had a phenomenal voice, I went upstairs, put in my hearing aid and listened again. It sounded the same. My heroes in the world of music begin with Mel Torme, whom I considered one of the best singers ever. For me, this was closely followed by the mellow tones of Elvis, Sinatra, Judy Garland, Streisand, Whitney Houston, Marty Robbins, Dean Martin, Mario Lanza, and a host of other greats that told wonderful stories with their songs. And, as stated above, you could easily understand every word they sang. Ironically, many of them took a diction course from a very famous lady in Nashville, TN. I read a story about her in a Nashville magazine, and was really impressed at the number of very famous singers that she coached.

I listened to that song Donny posted at least four times. Each time it sounded, at least to me, exactly the same. The lady, as I stated above, has an incredibly powerful voice, her range is fantastic, but her diction is, IMO, not up to par. To me, it's not about the way she sings as much as it is that the beautiful story within the song seems to be lost to what I consider nonsensical vocal inflections. If someone were to sing Over The Rainbow like that I would turn off the song. When I was six years old I fell in love with Dorothy from The Wizard Of Oz because of the way she sang that song. That song still brings tears to my eyes today, but for another reason. When I saw my daughter lying in the University of Maryland Shock Trauma Unit, her head in a halo to support her broken neck, her left leg and arm both in casts with stainless steel pins protruding through the cast, an endotrachael tube in her throat, an NG tube in her nose, and bandages everywhere you looked, Over The Rainbow played in my mind. I instantly recalled every word of that song, and still hear the voice of Judy Garland singing it, regardless of who is actually singing it.

Now, I believe I AM a damned good judge of singers. After all, I'm been a singer for more than six decades, and I've been a professional singer, one that gets paid to sing and play, since 1958. My voice has been heard on both radio and TV as voice overs for car commercials, and as a newscaster. I'll probably never be a judge on American Idol, America's Got Talent, etc..., but I sincerely believe that I'm a pretty damned good judge of vocal quality.

Yeah, maybe I'm old and cantankerous, but ya know, I'm proud of it,

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (03/29/15 08:23 PM)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#400966 - 03/29/15 10:51 PM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: KORG80]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Love both Stevie Wonder and Steve Winwood
<BR>


Edited by Nigel (03/29/15 10:52 PM)

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#400969 - 03/30/15 04:40 AM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: Nigel]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Nigel
Love both Stevie Wonder and Steve Winwood
<BR>


Nigel,

It appears he is using a Sequential Circuits Prophet 10, which was a dual manual Prophet 5 (actually two Prophet 5's in one case) and he's using nearly the same patch as he used on both Sundown Slowdown and Valerie.

His Hammond organ work is also very tasty (usually simple but very effective) and he's not too shabby on the guitar as well.

I believe some of Stevie Wonder's best work was when he was using the Yamaha GX-1 (he called it his "Dream Machine") on his "Songs In The Key Of Life" album, and one of its many uses was to get a cool string section effect on Village Ghetto Land.

I was very fortunate to get an opportunity to play the legendary GX-1 at Yamaha's Head Office back when I was a teacher in the Electone School, and, although I didn't get to play a Prophet 10, I did get to use a beautifully well maintained (and far more common) Prophet 5 for a few months when doing recording sessions at a studio in Newfoundland.

Back in the day, these instruments (and their derivatives) were on many top albums and used by some very notable (and very capable) players.

The GX-1 weighed over 600 lbs (not including the 200 lb pedal board), certainly not something a One Man Band player would be schlepping around without the help of several strong roadies and a very big van, not to mention paying the huge price tag of $50,000 (in 1980's dollars).

A Prophet 10 was a far more svelte 150 lbs, but didn't have a drum machine (analog) like the GX-1. frown

Man, I don't know how wandered into this stuff since the post was initially about vocals blush , but, I suppose singers (and songwriters) will reap the benefits of having great backing instruments.

Ian
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#400970 - 03/30/15 05:49 AM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: Dnj]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I don't know if being "old and cantankerous" is something to be proud of. To me, it's just a way of asking people to overlook or excuse bad behavior, bad decisions, bad judgment, etc. based on the number of years you've managed to clock. Older doesn't always mean wiser, if fact, it seldom does. In any case, experience and longevity still doesn't trump facts.

It seems no matter how many times it's repeated, some people still can't seem to get the fact that taste in music is a SUBJECTIVE thing and that their views or opinions are no more valid than anyone else's. Comparing an amateur performance on YouTube to the greatest singers in the world hardly seems like the proper criteria for determining whether that performance is good or bad. Personally, I had no trouble understanding the words - maybe it was because I already knew the words, or maybe I was just too busy listening to the WHOLE performance as opposed to nitpicking. Joe Cocker is one of my favorite singers yet I usually can only understand about 50% of his lyrics, especially on up-tempo tunes. I would never compare him to Frank Sinatra or Tony Bennett (whom I happen to like better than Sinatra) because they are into a totally different bag. But for me, Joe Cocker brings something else to the table (certainly not diction smile smile ) that makes me like his music....and in the end, isn't that all that counts?

Someone once said, "if you come across a dog that can talk, you don't question his grammar"....or something to that effect. I think it's perfectly okay to question the young lady's diction, but I just don't think that that's enough (or that it was bad enough) to shoot down the entire performance. After all, diction can be taught, talent can't.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#400973 - 03/30/15 08:04 AM Re: Wanted to Share Amazing Vocal... [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Chas, when I stated I was "Old and cantankerous," obviously, I was being facetious. If anything, my personality is exactly the opposite, and anyone that I've met on this and other forums will tell you that's the case, both online and in person.

I did not trash her entire performance, and in fact, if you go back and reread my statements, you will see that I applauded her vocal attributes, of which IMO, diction was not one of them. For the same reason, I do not like Joe Crocker's vocals, but I do like some of his songs, and there a few that I perform regularly.

I believe that every performer should bring the entire package to the forefront when performing a song, including diction. To me, this segment of the performance is what clarifies the story within the song, allowing the vocalist to communicate that song's story to his or her audience.

Now, because we disagree on this singer's vocal attributes, does this mean you're not going meet up with along the Intra Coastal Waterway this fall and tilt a few beers aboard the sailboat? wink

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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