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#399355 - 02/10/15 02:25 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: ianmcnll]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6756
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
Originally Posted By: Bachus


As i said before, for home players and OMB, arranger keys are the smartest solution.

and all those people saying Arrangers are the easy way out.... i dont think so, there is some OMB i know that use workstations and midi files... now thats the easy way out. Midi files.


You can also use the arranger as an educational tool, giving yourself access to the inner workings of a multitude of styles and genres, which will certainly increase your value and longevity as a working musician.

In music, especially nowadays, the more versatile you are, the more you work and a good Arranger Keyboard can definitely keep you in the game.

Actually, in most cases, people who hire composers don't care how you come up with the music, as long as you do.

And, let's say a songwriter doesn't know how to program drums or play guitar, or doesn't want to...the arranger can give them the satisfaction of hearing their songs being played by a band without having to call in a drummer or bass player etc.

In short, they can realize their music fully produced without hiring musicians (expensive), renting rehearsal space (also expensive) and booking lots of studio time (even more expensive).

As far as the people who are implying the Arranger is, as you say, "the easy way out", I don’t feel there is anyone on SZ who’s musicianship is of such high caliber, to be in such a position to make those implications.


Yes, it's a lot of fun playing with other musicians, but not everyone has that luxury, and, even if they do, it is often difficult to co-ordinate the schedules of three or four other players to get together for some quality jamming. I'm experiencing such difficulties recently due to some nasty winter weather.

With the Arranger Keyboard, you have the power to decide when the jam starts and ends...you have the control over the choice of genres...you make the decisions on the simplicity (or complexity) of the arrangement.

But most of all, as you have also mentioned, "they (arrangers) are fun to play" and we can all use a bit more fun in our lives.

Ian
how about adding a new type of style called jam session..... You dictate the chords as a player, and your arranger bandbuddies play much more free then before...

Now that would be a great thing...
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#399356 - 02/10/15 04:41 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: tony mads usa]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5807
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Quit trotting out the same old tired arguments about how much money you've made with your AK, or how much your audiences "love" your sound - compared to what? So dumb to take these things so personally. chas


Tony please, PLEASE trust me on this; That statement was NOT, I repeat, NOT directed at YOU. Please forgive me if my poor phrasing made it seem that way (and I can see how it could). I didn't disassociate it with the previous statement which WAS addressed to you but not in any kind of mean-spirited way - just conversationally. Points out again the problem of trying to converse on the internet. My sincere apologies for riling you up and in the future I'll try to make sure any arrows I might happen to sling hit the right target smile smile.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#399357 - 02/10/15 05:21 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
The people who actually do things always suffer the slings and arrows of those who don't.


Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#399358 - 02/10/15 05:36 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Bachus]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Bachus

how about adding a new type of style called jam session..... You dictate the chords as a player, and your arranger bandbuddies play much more free then before...

Now that would be a great thing...


Now, that would be cool...maybe also a random chord generator that would keep the chords within a certain range or key?

Maybe a more elaborate version of Yamaha's Music Finder/Repertoire features that would choose a broader range of suggested styles or tunes?

Using the Score feature, it's really cool to be able to analyse bass lines and Phrase parts...a good source of inspiration.

In Style Creator, using a combination of Style Assembly and Groove & Dynamics allows you to take parts from, for example, Swing styles, and use them in Latin or Pop rhythms.

I'm always experimenting with ways to loosen up the styles to give them an even more natural feel.

Anyone who gets bored with their Arranger Keyboard, just isn't trying.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#399364 - 02/10/15 07:00 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14537
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Yamaha had something like that on the PSR-5700. You just fired up a style and pushed a button. It was neat.

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#399368 - 02/10/15 07:51 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
DonM Online   elvis
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15948
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Ketron has the Riff feature, that is similar.
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DonM

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#399369 - 02/10/15 07:52 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
The 5700 was quite an advanced arranger...it had what they called "Super Styles" and "Interactive Accompaniment" which made it a very interesting instrument to play. I would have bought my demo model, but it did not have On-Bass in the fingering modes, so at that time I was using a Roland product for my personal gigs...an E-70 if I recall correctly.

Still, it would be cool if they could bring back those features, especially now with the advancements in technology.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#399372 - 02/10/15 08:16 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: cgiles]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 13243
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Quit trotting out the same old tired arguments about how much money you've made with your AK, or how much your audiences "love" your sound - compared to what? So dumb to take these things so personally. chas


Tony please, PLEASE trust me on this; That statement was NOT, I repeat, NOT directed at YOU. Please forgive me if my poor phrasing made it seem that way (and I can see how it could). I didn't disassociate it with the previous statement which WAS addressed to you but not in any kind of mean-spirited way - just conversationally. Points out again the problem of trying to converse on the internet. My sincere apologies for riling you up and in the future I'll try to make sure any arrows I might happen to sling hit the right target smile smile.
chas


chas ... apology accepted ... yes, the written word is often misinterpreted ...

Conversationally, as said, I think that some people, when they speak - or in the case of this forum - WRITE - about AKs, they seem to be talking down and demeaning the work of OMB ...
Now, it is true that there are OMB who only use the KB as a glorified midi or mp3 player and just sing over it ... I would agree that some - many?- of these people have not worked to develop their talents the way others have ... however, there are many players/singers/entertainers here who have spent years developing their style and the delivery of their product, and while their audiences may not be the most critical judges of musical talent, these players are providing countless hours of musical entertainment to a wide variety of audiences, and to be 'degraded' for using the modern technology of AKs can become a 'personal' issue ...
For me, I have had the good fortune of playing accordion for many years - yes, I said GOOD FORTUNE of playing accordion wink - that allowed me to migrate to a Fender Rhodes, and then to an AK, which now allows me to go out, make a few bucks, and feed my ego by entertaining people ... but there are many times that I wish I was playing a gig with other 'live' musicians ... Just last week, I had the blessing of playing a gig with the sax player from our band in NY ... the last time we played together was last year at this same gig, but no one in the audience would have known that ... in fact, when I told one friend who was there, he couldn't believe it - he thought we played together all the time ... but that's what playing for 26 years will do for you ...

But, back to the OT ... I still say we don't see Aks on big stages because they are not needed there ... but there are plenty of stages where they are needed and provide a valuable tool for entertainment as well as a good tool in a studio environment ...

(The fact is, the WHOLE industry has changed, so much of today's music is 'manufactured', not played, recordings are made without the musicians and singers ever even seeing each other, ... like much of life, the personal interaction is getting less and less, and yes, I think that is really sad.)

Stay cool ...
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t. cool

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#399374 - 02/10/15 08:22 AM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: tony mads usa]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 13243
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
On the subject of a 'jam' style, I really think that would be cool... my KN1000 had what I think was called 'Dynamic Accomp' or something like that, that 'enhanced' the style depending on the velocity of the Right Hand playing ...
Speaking of enhanced styles, I would STILL like to find a KORG Jazz Ballad style that would have a 'Double Time' variation in it ... is that asking too much?!? ...
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t. cool

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#399452 - 02/11/15 07:19 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 2447
Loc: Dallas, Texas
So with all this talk of the demise of the arranger keyboard, nobody has said what the new alternative is for the keyboardist that wants full sounding backing without a preset backing track. So what will take the place of arranger keyboards ?
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It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist.

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