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#399337 - 02/09/15 04:25 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: cgiles]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
The same "old tired arguments" only seem to appear after the same old tired criticisms by the same old tired critics.

'Round and 'round they go...

Ian


Which, of course, YOU never, ever contribute to. Must be wonderful to be so pure and so innocent ALL the time. Maybe you should give a clinic on how to accomplish that. You wouldn't even need a T4, just a BS meter.

chas








Reading your criticisms Chas is taxing my BS meter to the limit...it went right off the scale.



“Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.”~Brendan Behan

Ian the (Mostly)Pure
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#399338 - 02/09/15 04:30 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: ianmcnll]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5793
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll

Ian the (Mostly)Pure


Pure BS smile smile.
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#399339 - 02/09/15 04:37 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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#399340 - 02/09/15 05:09 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40750
1 2 Cha Cha Cha...

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#399341 - 02/09/15 05:42 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dnj
1 2 Cha Cha Cha...




Ian
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#399344 - 02/09/15 06:58 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14519
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I think I'll get myself a Gloom & Doom meter for Donny and the others that believe the world of arranger keyboards will quickly be coming to an end unless the manufacturers see things their way. wink

Another fun day in Paradise,

Gary cool
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#399346 - 02/09/15 07:52 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Dnj]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5793
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Gary, I don't see the eminent demise of the Arranger keyboard as long as there continues to be a strong European market for them, but I do see indications that their popularity and sales may be declining here in America. In fact, America probably doesn't even account for the majority of AK sales.

This could, however, produce a negative spin-off effect for American players though, in that styles and style production could/would become increasingly more European oriented (Schlagers and the like). This would lead to even more alienation by the younger players. Donny made some good points to support this; just because we may not want to hear them doesn't make them any less true.

But not to worry. Given the age of most of us, Arrangers will probably be around long after WE are gone.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#399348 - 02/09/15 09:20 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: cgiles]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 13208
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Tony, in the context of being a "lazy man's tool", I'm sure you got the gist of what I meant. While you're at it, maybe you can explain why arranger players get so darn defensive and downright angry if anyone says anything that's not downright glowering about the thing. "Thou dost protest too much" comes to mind. Lots of people tell me the 'Hammond' sound is dated; I could care less; I like it. Quit trotting out the same old tired arguments about how much money you've made with your AK, or how much your audiences "love" your sound - compared to what? So dumb to take these things so personally. Even the much-loved DNJ can't make a true statement about these things without getting hammered smile smile.

Play on, baby, it's all music - more or less.

chas


chas WHOA ... you have TOTALLY misread me ... and that's not the first time, but I hope it's the last, ...

First, I don't think I've EVER been defensive or angry about AKs ... I have often said that to me they are a 'necessary evil' ... a way for me to make some golf money, and feed my ego by entertaining people ... if I could turn back the clock and be playing gigs with my four best friends again, I would gladly do it ...

Second, I also don't think I've EVER trotted "out the same old tired arguments about how much money you've made with your AK" because as I said, I make enough to pay for my golf ... and if I have said that people "love" my sound, it's only because that's what THEY have said - and I've never asked them "compared to what" ... perhaps next time I will ...

Third, the emphasis I added in that post was to answer the question that had been asked several times as to why we don't see Aks being used by 'pros' or 'big name' groups ... I have given my answer many times ... perhaps you might read it again and see that I'm actually on the same side of the 'argument' as you are ...

Fourth, if AK players do get defensive, perhaps it is because there are some people on this forum who when they speak of AK players, they do so in what appears to be a degrading manner ... while many of us may not be the same caliber players as some of you, I see no reason to degrade what we are doing ...

Fifth, I LOVE the Hammond sound as 'dated' as it might be ...

Sixth, I only take personally things that are said about me or my family ... music is in the ear of the beholder - some people like what I do, some don't ... just like any other art form, and everything else in life ...
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#399350 - 02/09/15 09:47 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: tony mads usa]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6755
Anyone remembers, that i have been a year withouth arranger, playing software instruments and masterkeys...

In the end i came to the conclusion that the most important reason for me to come back to to arrangers was the fact that they are fun to play. I really missed that right out of the box easy set/up thing. and the provided content...

And i still can play piano parts on top of midi files, or anything else... and for creating my very own sounds, i still use the same software on top of my arranger, and a module...


As i said before, for home players and OMB, arranger keys are the smartest solution.

and all those people saying Arrangers are the easy way out.... i dont think so, there is some OMB i know that use workstations and midi files... now thats the easy way out. Midi files.



Personally i think the future for the home market is in pianos with arranger functions for the upper class, because mama wants something that looks good in her living room.
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#399351 - 02/09/15 10:26 PM Re: So What did we learn from NAMM 2015? [Re: Bachus]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Bachus


As i said before, for home players and OMB, arranger keys are the smartest solution.

and all those people saying Arrangers are the easy way out.... i dont think so, there is some OMB i know that use workstations and midi files... now thats the easy way out. Midi files.


You can also use the arranger as an educational tool, giving yourself access to the inner workings of a multitude of styles and genres, which will certainly increase your value and longevity as a working musician.

In music, especially nowadays, the more versatile you are, the more you work and a good Arranger Keyboard can definitely keep you in the game.

Actually, in most cases, people who hire composers don't care how you come up with the music, as long as you do.

And, let's say a songwriter doesn't know how to program drums or play guitar, or doesn't want to...the arranger can give them the satisfaction of hearing their songs being played by a band without having to call in a drummer or bass player etc.

In short, they can realize their music fully produced without hiring musicians (expensive), renting rehearsal space (also expensive) and booking lots of studio time (even more expensive).

As far as the people who are implying the Arranger is, as you say, "the easy way out", I don’t feel there is anyone on SZ who’s musicianship is of such high caliber, to be in such a position to make those implications.


Yes, it's a lot of fun playing with other musicians, but not everyone has that luxury, and, even if they do, it is often difficult to co-ordinate the schedules of three or four other players to get together for some quality jamming. I'm experiencing such difficulties recently due to some nasty winter weather.

With the Arranger Keyboard, you have the power to decide when the jam starts and ends...you have the control over the choice of genres...you make the decisions on the simplicity (or complexity) of the arrangement.

But most of all, as you have also mentioned, "they (arrangers) are fun to play" and we can all use a bit more fun in our lives.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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