I talked to another OMB from RI today and he told me he actually participated in a 'showcase' for assisted living/ nursing home entertainers, maybe a dozen or so singers/players, doing a ten minute audition for an audience of about 100 people, with representatives of well over 2 dozen places ...
he said a good number of performers were singers using just laptops for backing - BUT, he said they were very good, young, personable, and very interactive with the audience - he said one young male singer was really good and good looking and had a line of Activity Directors trying to book him ...
I realize that some of you, like Donny and Gary, have been doing this for YEARS as your only means of livelihood, and have developed a solid and well established base of clientele ... but there are guys like myself who only got into this after retiring from a '9 to 5' and have not had the years to develop those clients ...
So, the business as I've known it may be coming to an end,
but it has been a GREAT ride ...

Nothing is changing in fact it's getting better all the time with so many NEW facilities being built and they all have to have entertainment!!

Bottom line Tony....."BE MUCH BETTER THEN THEM"....nuff said!...

the work will follow and the phone will ring......If you have the talent & are NOT just another run of the mill so called entertainer nothing can stop you. Ask yourself Am I better then the rest out there? If the answer is no realize the reason and make yourself better then the rest of them at any cost if your serious about being a TOP Act on the circuit.
Personally I welcome all these wannabes,...like I always say, ..
"The More They Play, The More $$$ I Make" ......
Let YOUR Music & Voice be your calling card always & Mix it up. If you play there once and you don't get called back for more there is a reason behind it and most times it's your music and singing and the way you performed and the reaction of the audience when you were playing for them. BRING THEM THE WOW FACTOR EVERY SHOW!!!

That's true, Donny, but I have also recently seen situations where the audience LOVED it- they were singing, dancing, even some of the staff - but the people who do the hiring aren't even in the room !!!

That's not at all unusual, Tony. There have been several times when I'm performing and the staffers walk out of the room. I get pissed when they do that, and I tell them that I will NOT perform unless there is at least one staff person in the room, mainly for safety reasons.

Now, what I recommend, is to go around to the different facilities and check out the competition. You'll be amazed. There is not a lot of Tony quality performers out there, and believe me, if you do some legwork you can find all the work you can handle. I should know.

Gary

It doesn't matter because when the missing AD asks the residence how did you like the show they will respond to her he was GREAT or he stunk......like I said Tony this is hard diligent work that you have to LOVE to be successful.......if you don't it's not worth the effort...might as well stay home. Every day every show I make it better and better then anyone else. Say to yourself what can I do to make my act even MORE IMPROVED??? Go see people perform that are better then yourself and learn from them,.......it never ends......You GOTTA LOVE IT BABY!!

Donny.....you’re living in a dream world. You need to step outside your hemisphere there and see what reality is like in other areas instead of giving advice that would be appropriate to the music scene maybe 20 years ago.

It’s not about talent anymore. The two biggest factors working against you nowadays are budgets and kids impersonating Activity Directors.

Haven’t you noticed the world is being overtaken and run almost exclusively nowadays by adolescents in their 20’s? Hotshots who have no conception about the true meaning of entertainment, the same as they have no conception of what music was like in the old days when you heard melody and not just a pulsating beat!

Music is like food. You can go to Cheap Charlie’s Chowder House and get a bland, no-frills steak, but it’s food. Or you can go to the Paris Hilton and get one done by a professional chef who will make that steak into a work of art and will make you feel satisfied long after it’s been digested. Unfortunately, many AD’s go the Cheap Charlie route now ‘cause they haven’t the faintest idea a “Paris Hilton” even exists!

And, there ain’t no one going to argue the point about “budgets.” I have this one 15 year account. The AD told me 2 years ago that they want to keep me on, but they’ve been hit with a.....BUDGET, and that I will have to drop my price to $100 and go from 12 appearances a year to 4.....1 every 3 months. My other 13 year account also dwindled down from 12 spots a year (booked yearly in advance) to 4 a year and in 2015, because of budget limitations, she’s booking by the month and I was told “we’ll call you if we can fit you in anymore!”

My one solid account is “solid” because the AD’s are middle-aged, very professional, and very experienced. She told me clearly the reason I’m there over a decade is that I play well and I interact well with the residents and that’s clearly what they want. She went on to say they are flooded with entertainers trying to work their way in. They give them one chance and watch them carefully, and most are shown the door. And, BTW, after all these years, even I’m “watched carefully” and I respect them for that!

I sometimes wonder if you ever stepped out of that domain you live in down there and tried working in the real world, would you be so quick to give out advice like you do. Unless you’re a Justin Timberlake or a Jimmy Fallon, the Camelot days of big money are somewhat over.

Mark

People who are successful in any field are focussed on ways to continue to be successful and adapt and change where necessary . People who are failing to be successful seem to focus on reasons why they are not , refuse to adapt and change , stagnate and disappear . That's how it's always been and ever shall be .

Talent is very important but attitude is far more important

Mark....I respect your opinion but cannot agree at all.
Good Luck.

Mark, Nursing homes, assisted living centers and retirement communities are no different than any other business when it comes to finances. When the economy goes down the tube, they feel it just as much as any other service business. I had some that asked me to drop my prices per performance, and I told them the best thing to do was just cut the number of performances, thus they could stay within their budget. They agreed this was the best way to go.

Now, there are no 20 year olds performing the Nursing Home circuit - they don't even know it exists. They're all wannabe stars, have guitar will travel types - not quality entertainers that know how to run a business, let alone read an audience. They're the ones in the clubs and from my perspective, they can have them. I have an AD that has a five piece metal band. I went to see them at a local restaurant/club last week. They were way too loud, their PA sucked, their songs all sounded the same. No competition there.

Tony is a quality musician/entertainer. If he aggressively markets himself, he will find more work than he can handle. In my part of the world, there are new care facilities springing up every day. More often then not, one of the ADs I currently deal with will be going to one or more of those locations, as they tend to seek out experienced ADs for the new facilities.

So, if anyone is experiencing a decrease in the number of bookings due to budgetary constraints, this could all change with an improvement in the economy. Some folks feel the economy has improved, but in real terms, this is anything but a booming economy - just ask any business owner. Additionally, many of those new facilities that are under construction were in the planning and investment stages a decade ago, a time when the economy was much better. In some of the current locations, it's just a matter of cutting back on the number of performances, while at the same time expanding your performance base. Like I said on the outset, this just takes a bit of legwork and marketing on the part of the performer. It's a business like any other business, and should be treated as such.

Good luck,

Gary

I have to be blunt here, ..........Good post Gary,.....as you know from our business discussions from years ago, which have been implemented with GREAT Success year after year...
There are those performers who blame everything else about their so called "lack of work" on everything under the sun EXCEPT their own shortcomings with their music, singing, and performance skills, of which they don't even know they exist, AND REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT, or go out and listen, watch & learn from others, record your act and let other performers listen to it and give advice good or bad, step out of the box trying to MIX IT UP performing using other methods besides an arranger KB to suit the need, etc, .. not to mention the lack of needed CONSTANT AGGRESSIVENESS in obtaining & booking work in so many ways besides NH's which is only a very small part of this business. People are people no matter where in this big world you go,....they all need music for so many different affairs & functions I can go on & on but this is not the place to do it on a public forum.

Merry Christmas

Will post/finish this post later or just add a reply further down in the thread. I hit post in error and wasn't finished writing my reply.

OK, as a rule I don't jump into these discussions but will because the OMB my paesano from RI Tony talked about was me.

First some comments about the entertainer showcase. I was invitied by one of the ADs that use me to play their facility for special events. It was a last minute invitation extended to me when I called her to confirm a gig date. Going back 7 years ago I also participated in a showcase sponsored by the same AD Association , a few of us were repeat performers.

The major difference this time only 3 of us used keyboards ( 2 were arranger type) all of us over 62 years of age, 3 were guitarists ( one with a midi set up) the reamaining entertainers all used backing tracks, so out of 20 performers 14 used backing tracks.

As far as talent the backing tracking singers were better vocalists than any of us who played keyboards or guitars. 2 of the vocalists were knock out looking ladies one who seemed to specialize in disco era music the other country music complete with an outfit that looked like something Dale Evans used to wear. The remaining backing track entertainers were men in their 40s. I found that the male backing track vocalists really got involved in audience participation and walked among the tables using wireless mics with the predominantly female AD audience. It was real obvious too which of the male singers impressed the ladies. One guy an old friend of mine Bob is a great entertainer he'll head over to a table of ladies while singing a love song, get down on his knees and hold out his hand to theirs. That melts the ladies, he was the biggest hit there, the line to book him in 2015 was the longest out of any of them.

After everyone entertained ADs got the OK to start booking entertainers and the longest lines were formed by the backing track male vocalists While there I didn't book a single gig but have since gotten a couple of calls to play. I spoke with the other arranger player/duo, they didn't book a single gig that day either. With the exception of the midi guitarist Ray who has been on the circuit since the 80s the other guitarists had no lines either. Wasn't too happy when I left the showcase that day.

After the dust settled that day I thought about my playing and know that's why I never attempted to make music my full time work as in "don't quit your day job." We all have strengths and weaknesses. Some of us are blessed with more musical skills than others. I would not expect a pro musician and who has been gigging/entertaining for years to step into the job I retired from as MIS/IT manager last December and do the quality work I did there, nor should I expect myself to be suddenly playing 5 gigs anywhere per week. I can say this, the last 7 years I've taken every bit of advice on improving and on booking more gigs here at SZ. That also included getting some voice coaching and practicing 4 or 5 days per week.

Marketing? Sure maybe not as agressive as I could be, but I spent 25 years of my early life career in sales/marketing. In retirement from full time work I'm not looking for more full time sales marketing work on the gig front. The point has been made it comes down to working hard at it or being lazy. "Lazy" is not in my vocabulary and that comes from a guy who once upon a time ran tweleve 26.2 mile marathons 3 at the famed NYC Marathon, one in DC at the Marine Corps Marathon, about 40 olympic distance triathlons and hundreds of 5 and 10k road races. Not LAZY, I do know my limitations because I've tested them.

Every market is different, yes the number of assisted living facilities is growing here too. Rhode Island is a very unique market the entire state is smaller than many counties across the USA and there is a ton of talent in this small state. No excuses here just the way I see things. I'll close with saying a good friend of mine a graduate with a Bachelor of Music degree with a major in vocal studies is now the AD of a very large and upscale facility. He choose not to perform as a career because he's seen the intense competition here. He tells me he gets 20 calls and/or mailings each week of performers who would like to be booked at his facility.

First of all, I did not say that MY participation in this business is DEAD, just that it will come to an end, like EVERYTHING else in life, whether that is tomorrow, next week or 10 years from now ...
And I am not minimizing the marketing expertise and talent of people like Donny and Gary AT ALL ...
Donny and Gary enjoy a client base and reputation that has been established over DECADES of hard work ...

HOWEVER, if we are going "to be blunt here" then let's be honest and admit that attempting to ENTER this business NOW, at ages of 65 and above, would be TOTALLY different than when people entered it many years ago ... the competition is different, and as stated in Steve's post above, they are not just sitting behind a keyboard, playing and singing - no matter HOW GOOD THAT MIGHT BE ...

Gary, if you say there are no 20 year olds performing the NH circuit in your area, then good for you - they may not be 20 year olds, but the rest of the competition here in RI is 30 to 40+ years younger than I am ... AND THEY ARE TALENTED ...

And how many of US knew how to run a business, at 20? ... we learned along the way and so will they ...

I will continue to 'market' myself as much as I need to try to have the amount of gigs I WANT ... fortunately, music is FAR from what I NEED to do to put food on the table ... 40 years of good work in a different industry has provided for that ... music just keeps me playing better golf courses while smoking better cigars ... AND keeps my ego happy!!!

Well, I'm 65. But I'm not doing this stuff full time. It's a hobby business for my wife and I. Kudos to those of you making decent $$$ playing..I have friends that make pretty good money around here.

My first thought when reading this thread is that this is all about entertainment. The folks that I know that get the jobs are good entertainers...despite whatever music they use.

I book for a local entertainment place called the Dalton Opera house. The big names(for us anyway)we brought in throughout 2014 all used some sort of Karoke system. Most of our audience are grey hairs and they could care less about the fact that it's karoke. But what these folks could do was entertain...and they did it well.

My wife even commented about us going to a karoke style and maybe someday we will do that and use the Tyros to make tracks.

I'm not crazy about a Karoke system for what we do. Here's why:

(1) We still have to bring in a PA, mikes etc.

(2) With Karoke you need a laptop and hopefully some words co-ordinated with the music...in case you get lost and that happens. With Karoke, the music doesn't care if you don't know where you are.

(3) Karoke can't be spontaneous. When we go to assisted living places and play music halls, some times, if the crowd is small enough, my wife or I will go out, get a partner, and dance...then a number of folks get up and dance. Try doing that with a Karoke program.

I do admire those folks that try to make a living doing this. It ain't easy. I've got a second cousin in a town about 40 miles away who plays 4 - 5 times a week...hauling equipment etc. He works hard but he also makes some pretty good $$$. He uses a three piece, guitars, bass, and drum machine.

Hi Gary,

Well, since Steve is doing a “tell-all“ confession, then I’ll do one too. I don’t think I ever mentioned a lot about myself here as I can be a very private person sometimes.

I’ve been playing almost five decades now as a full time professional musician. There were many periods where I’ve done almost 7 days a week and periodically 2-3 in a day. I’ve worked the whole tri-state area and every country in Western Europe.....as an arranger player, an accordionist, a pianist, a disc jockey, a Karaoke jockey, lectures in libraries.....heck, I was such a hustler I was even doing singing telegrams in my spare time for about a year for $50 a throw. I even played for 12 years in a huge shopping mall every Saturday for nothing for the exposure.

I guess you could say after all that time playing in all those areas of entertainment, I must have something going for me. I do! It’s called “talent” and more important I was blessed, like yourself, with a good understanding of how to market that talent. You and I both know you couldn’t sell $10 bills for $5 without marketing skills. And, like you, I was also “blessed” with an enthusiasm for music and a good work ethic that helped me to dedicate hours to practice and memorization of songs and lyrics and keyboard technique and still take the time “in-between” to hustle work.

Having said all that, the point I’m trying to make is.....the changes I’ve seen over five decades! It’s simply not about “talent” anymore.....it’s strictly marketing, youth, and budgets.....but mostly BUDGETS!

So who suffers? The audience does. And, audiences are comprised of people…..and people make up the world. I tend to be an idealist and an altruist. I never cared about the money.....I cared about giving as many people as I could great music and great entertainment and that would be my contribution to society.

Now, I’m not saying that the current crop of entertainers are all bad. There are a few good apples in the lot, but in the old days there weren’t just a few “good apples” in the lot.....there were just a few “BAD apples.”

Anyhow, to get back on track.....what I’m going to say is probably unique to me (hopefully not others).

I’m just plain tired of the never-ending marketing, trying to compete with young kids, weekend warrior musicians who lost their day jobs and are playing everything from harmonicas to kazoos for a ham salad sandwich and the chance to get out of the house, volunteers who play for nothing, high school jazz bands seeking experience, unscrupulous booking agents (one booked me as a “world-class” DJ into an African-American Xmas party!), obnoxious clients who try and chisel you down on your price, the lack of respect for professional musicians (and professional “anythings” these days!), the traffic trying to get to a job, the constant trying to keep up with technological advances (?) in music equipment, the never-ending paperwork required for each job, and I can go on and on but I’m depressing MYSELF now!

I remember the way it used to be. You had a gig, you put your accordion, your Ampeg amp, your rhythm machine and your tuxedo into the trunk and you drove effortlessly to the job (today you need a moving van). Did your 4 hours, 2-3 hours in overtime, collected a good paycheck and everyone was happy.

Sure, I could still make a great living by “adapting” to today’s requirements but all of the above takes the joy of making music out of the equation. There’s just not enough time or energy any more to do both.

To be fair, this is the way it is in MY neck of the woods. I’m hoping where the rest of you live, it’s not the “free-for-all” that it is here. Frank Sinatra sang.....”If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere!” He wasn’t far off the money with that phrase.

Yes, one can transform themselves into “Super-Entertainer” (and maybe even have their own reality TV show), but does the END justify the MEANS? Does the law of diminishing returns come into play here? It was so much easier when “talent” was the only thing you needed and mature adults ran the world!

Mark

Steve…….apart from you being a genuinely nice guy, I’m really impressed with your background! I didn’t know you had such a colorful history behind you! And that you were such a ball of fire in days gone by.

Just running those marathons alone would leave you somewhere between a migraine headache and a root canal. It could make you feel like you slept in a paper shredder! I ran 3 miles every morning for years. One day I entered just a 6.6 mile marathon and at the end of it I almost swore off running. Good that you know your limitations ‘cause I didn’t. I jumped from a height and tore the muscles in both knees.

So, my impression of you is different now. I can see you’re not the Clark Kent you portray yourself to be. That underneath those street clothes is a Superman costume waiting to be revealed! And Gotham City waiting to be swept free of crime!

Mark, I agree with a lot of what you stated above - it's a lot of work, and there will come a time, in the not too distant future, when I will no longer be willing to compete in this market. I offered my jobs to Don Mason, but he said it sounded too much like work to him. To be honest, I think retirement may be just a year or less away. Too many physical problems cropping up lately.

Gary

Gary, if you were down here where it's warm I would do it for a while! :-$
As it is now I can cherry pick the jobs that pay well and enjoy a little home life for the first time in many years.
I am playing something like six to eight nights a month at the supper club, which is still about the best gig in the area.
I also do private parties and quite a few political fund raisers.
These are all through contacts developed over many years of building a good reputation.
I'd hate to have to start out cold in an area where no one had heard of me. I'm certain it would be tough for a fat old greyhair to break in!

One thing that comes through loud and clear in these NH gigs, is that lugging a $2-5000.00 Arranger keyboard offers you no particular advantage over the Laptop/singer competition (whether they think you're playing it or not). So unless you're Donny or Gary, who are able to make a sufficient living at it, how do you justify, or rather, why do you even bother, to spend all that money to not only purchase, but constantly upgrade to the 'latest/greatest', if it doesn't enhance your presentation.

It seems pretty obvious to me that what is REALLY important is the singing and 'entertaining' part of your act.....that, and your good looks. I can see buying an Arranger for one's own personal pleasure, but why risk damaging it, incurring all the wear and tear, and going through all the hassle of song preparation and gig setup, if it matters not a whit to the appeal of your act?

Of course I'm only referring to NH gigs here (re above). Obviously, you need to carry your instrument/s to a club (or similar) gig. But, truth be told, I think Tony and Steve's posts above, are a testament to the growing acceptance of Laptop/DJ/KJ performances in venues where 'live' music use to prevail. It seems like THEY have adjusted, maybe WE need to. Maybe (gasp) Donny is right; maybe Arrangers ARE dying. Personally, I don't think so, I just think the NEED for them (or perhaps even the whole concept of the OMB) may be diminishing. JMO.

chas

Bingo! Spot on, Chas!

What you are saying certainly applies in my surrounding area...typical arranger performers at NH are generally guitarist/vocalists/entertainers with the Arranger being relegated to the role of a fancier, pricier SMF player.

The use of laptops with background tracks as mp3's is becoming very prevalent, and most of the NH, and, also a lot of the nightclub/bar performers, are using them as well.

The audience simply is there to be "entertained".

Over the past several years, my own gigs were steadily decreasing, not helped along by the fact I don't sing, so when the opportunity for retirement came up, I took it without hesitation. The larger restaurants in the area that booked the occasional background music keyboardist have all either shut down, or no longer have any music other than a central CD player piped throughout the venue.

My primary use for my Tyros4, besides being my own entertainment here at my apartment, is as a recording studio tool, and, a friend of mine and I carved out a small but fairly lucrative niche where we do music demos for aspiring local artists/songwriters, or just other retired musicians wanting to make a recording of some of their old "hits", which are generally old mainstream commercial tunes they used to sing in their former bands. They usually want a CD they can give to their family and/or friends.

That's where the T4 (or any arranger, for that matter) really shines as we can lay down bed tracks really quickly, generally using edited styles, or in some cases, song specific styles. These people can't afford the big studios, so we do pretty good at charging less and getting things done quickly (as time in any studio, is money) and therefore attracting more clients.

It's also a lot of fun, and keeps the old brain workin'....ha ha!

You know me...I've always maintained that Arrangers were originally designed as "Home Keyboards" and I suspect that they will continue to be sold as such, and, the once already small OMB/Arranger player/Singer/entertainer population will become even slimmer.

I feel I was lucky to have the opportunity to retire when I did, as I wouldn't be able to survive on gigging alone, even when supplemented with studio work.

Ian

HI - thought I'd chime in; I have posted a good amount around the forums, mostly along the technical and music topics, but have not done as much writing about my music-playing gigs themselves. I can relate to much of what I've read here ...

Some background ... I'm 55 now, and have been doing the RH/NH type circuit for a couple of decades (along with ~1/3 of my gigs being in non-RH places). I was fortunate that my organ teacher (when I was a kid) introduced me to not just the current music of the time (late 1960s and then 1970s), but to a LOT of older music too - so I loved playing music from 1920s-1940s eras as much as the '60s and '70s (plus classical from a few centuries ago! :-)

Music-playing has always been a "side business" for me, as I have always had a typical "8-5" job. But I have a genuine love of playing, so have not minded "putting in the time/work" to do the marketing, learn plenty of good material that people want to hear, and doing what I can to "put on a good show".

One difference for me is that I'm not a singer. I play instrumentally. That hasn't stopped me from getting call-backs though, people seem to enjoy what I do just the same. I have been getting call-backs from many places for 15+ years now. (I'm in the central NC/USA area). People seem to enjoy the instrumentals; audience members tend to want to position themselves so they can SEE me play, and they often come up after asking about the keyboards/equipment, how I get all those sounds, and they enjoy the visual aspect (Watching my hands play the keyboards and hitting all the buttons and pedals etc.) I always try to put on a dynamic, variety, interesting program and not just play "meekly" or play "background-music". (I play a Tyros5 with an additional small keyboard). I throw in some "high-energy production number" type pieces, along with some gentler music, all from the eras they seem to enjoy.

Since I only do this part time, I often have to say "no" to ADs who call me - I only do 2-3 bookings a week (my choice). Even though I say "no", they just hire me for a future month etc., and they seem to keep trying to get (book) me even though I don't have as much availability as full-time musicians.

Anyway, like others mentioned, over the last ~5 or so years, I have seen a gradual decline ... one place used to have a 2-hour ballroom dance every month, and I played it for many years. Now they do it 4 times a year. Another place used to have me play a "happy hour" type thing every month, not I do that 4 times a year as well. So they have had cutbacks. What happens now though, is since some of my "regulars" have reduced their schedules, I now can fit in more "YES" responses to AD calls from places I used to not play at as often ... so it's balanced out OK. I haven't had any clients want to reduce my rate, thankfully.

Anyway, that's how things appear to me in central NC, USA. I do notice that there are more and more new RH/Assisted Care (etc.) places opening, so I think I'll never run out of opportunities ... but I agree with others, that it is a constant marketing thing to keep it all going year after year! :-)

Thanks all for the various comments/discussions, interesting to hear about what others are doing and experiencing!

-Jim

On the other hand, reading through more posts here, I'll never forget what that fellow said to me 20 years ago. I was "tired" at the time and commenting on it. He replied "Would you rather be making your living driving a taxi cab in New York City?"

I think about that to this day and maybe I should think about it even more now.

My own particular saying goes like this: "The WORST of this job is still better than the BEST of any other!"

MARK

I've played out in public for $$$ for probably 45 years or more...mostly with weekend and hobby bands.

There are times in my life when I thought about going full time but that steady paycheck of my job kept me back. So, instead, I worked 40+ years on the job...not as much fun as playing though. Nice though to have a couple of retirement checks coming in each month so I don't have to depend on this income.

The upside was that I was able to sock away a pretty good chunk of $$$ for a boat, or whatever. I ended up spending it on music equipment...fine with me. The other thing is that I actually have a hobby that pays $$$ and have paid for a lot of equipment with our gigs.

There are a number of paying jobs in our part of the country, within a 50 mile radius of where I live. Cities are growing here and so are assisted living places. Also, this is prime vacation land around here and lots of jobs in the summer months.

That said, it's not easy to make a living around here entertaining. However, I do have a few friends that give it their best shot.

I have a good keyboard playing friend that spent 35 years on the road and recently retired..he's 65. As he says, he didn't retire on what he made playing but rather on investments and inheritance. He loved what he did for a living but, as he says, you pay a price for doing what you love to do.

Rog

One other thing on shrinking budgets....

Prior to her death, my mother lived in a nursing home facility.

Her small room ran, $6,000 a month, and that was 10 years ago.

There were many residents in that facility and it didn't take much calculation to figure out that that facility generated $$$ millions of dollars a year.

However, they refused to pay for any entertainment. "We have no budget for that" I would hear from the activities director.

Truth is, that business...and that's what it was a business, was generating big income for it's investors.

And that income was what was most important. To pay a few entertainers each month a $100 or so would have been such a small part of the monthly budget(I estimated once about .001% of
their monthly budget) that no one would have missed it.

Many of these places are big business and big business likes big returns.

That said, there are a number of places in our area where I live now that find entertainment important enough to have a budget for it.

It's a place like that that 'cares' that I'm going to choose to live in when the time comes.

The problem is too many people into the music business pigeonhole themselves into a specific category . So for example nursing home performers see primarily themselves as musicians to play in nursing homes and therefore don't look for opportunities outside of that. Wedding band musicians do the same. To survive in any business you have to have fingers in many pies and you need to be actively and continuously marketing yourselves in those areas to bring a steady income stream. For example my brother-in-law is a choir leader who is paid to instruct and to write and arrange music for about eight choirs in the London area. He also teaches music professionally eight times a year by organising seminars where people will pay up to £200 for a weekend in a hotel where he will provide intensive advanced keyboard and programming techniques. He also does session work for the BBC which is a large television network in the UK and he also performs live regularly at numerous clubs throughout London.he generates a combined income sufficient to take care of himself his family is home his car and save. He works very hard on his musical skills but most important, he works even harder at his business skills and is able to Leveridge sufficient pay for the work that he does to remain in control of his income (subject to the normal variations that comes with self employment ) .

It is by no means easy, but it is achievable

My brother is a full time music teacher, going on 42 years at it.

He makes a pretty good salary teaching music and loves what he does.

He is an accomplished keyboard/piano player but tells me he has no great ambitions to play publicly other than what he does for his choir.

Short story is that yes, you can make it. Lots of ways to do that but it ain't always easy.

I've been self employed since 1975, but not always as a full-time, musician/entertainer. I've also made a good living as a full-time freelance outdoor writer, a freelance radio newscaster, and as the owner of a moderate sized sporting goods store that specialized in fishing, boating and hunting equipment.

When I left the field of cardio-pulmonary medicine in 1975, that was my last regular paycheck. It was also the last time anyone other than myself contributed to my social security and retirement. However, it was the same time when I set up my OWN retirement account, so that one day, I hoped, I could stop working for a living. That day has not come.

Over the many years I've been on this forum, I've tried to encourage forum members to create a retirement account. And, anyone that believes they can live off Social Security obviously believes in the Tooth Fairy. It's not at all difficult to set up an IRA, or any other forum of retirement account - but I was amazed at the number of full-time musicians that I've come across over the year that have not done this. Then, when health issues forced them to retire from music, they had to either take a reverse mortgage on their home, or in some instances, sell their home and move in with their children.

I treat my retirement account just like it was the electric bill. I used to pay it monthly, but now I pay it annually in one lump sum, and I contribute all that I can legally pay into it. That works out to about $100 a week - which is usually less than I spend on a couple meals at Red Lobster for Carol and I. (I hate Red Lobster food!)

Now that I have surpassed my 71st birthday, the law requires that I take out a minimal amount from my retirement. The feds don't like it if you don't do this, so they made it a law. However, I still continue to make the same contribution, which is more than I withdraw. And, there's no law against that. Consequently, the amount of the minimal withdrawal has increased over the past few years, which is great, because the cost of living has increased as well, so in a sense, I merely break even, which is better than most folks do on Social Security.

My point is, IF YOU HAVE NOT SET UP AN IRA, AND YOU ARE A FULL-TIME MUSICIAN ENTERTAINER, you are, or will be, in deep $hit in the very near future. There's an old saying about life that really puts a good light on this subject "Life is like a roll of toilet paper - the closer you get to the end of the roll, the faster it comes off!"

Nothing is forever, including my, or your, job. I suspect that one day, the NH circuit of the musical entertainment field will no longer exist, and if that day comes while I'm still performing, well, I'll sell my stuff to DNJ and sail to the Florida Keys where I'll retire to a life of sailing and fishing, or just drinking Margarettas and sitting on the deck in the sunshine.

Cheers,

Gary

No need for that Gary,.........
If I drop dead on stage singing "MY WAY" I'll have had a wonderful musical career, with no complaints ......
Music has been very good to me..

Gary, you are right about retirement/IRA. I've been paying into SSI since I was 18, I'm now 65, and still paying into it. The upside was that my SSI check is a good one. I also get a retirement check from my former employer that I retired from 10 years ago. I pull a little out of my IRA once a year to play catch up and then by the time the next year rolls around, that money is made up by interest payments.

Another thing to consider is getting everything paid off..house, car, etc. By the time my wife retires, we'll be there on that one.

I no longer contribute to an IRA but my wife, who is 4 years my jr. still contributes to hers.

So between the two of us, we do o.k. Income doesn't provide for a lot of toys but I can always buy more toys by playing out just a bit more.

Some of the most beautiful things in Life are FREE!!

Donny, most musician/entertainers don't drop dead on stage. The vast majority die after suffering debilitating illnesses, some that may last up to a decade before that final day arrives. Of all the musician/entertainers I know, and I know a lot of them, only one dropped dead on the job - Jimmy McKinney, which was a forum member and good friend. Jimmy was a great keyboard player, and an outstanding sax player. Jimmy shoved every dime he made into his pocket, (most of his jobs were cash), then went about finding new ways to piss it away. He never put a penny in the bank, never figured on retiring, and he didn't. When he died, his wife was slammed with debt that she never knew existed. There were bills that came in from places she never heard of, and when he departed this wonderful world, he left her with more than a quarter-million in unpaid bills. He had a dozen credit cards that were in both names, but she never knew that, and they were all maxed out. He had no life insurance, no retirement, no bank account, and lived the high life right up till the end.

Now, NOTHING - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, in this world is free. Someone pays for everything. Even love isn't free. Remember the free love of the 70s? We're still paying for that one. There is NO free ride! Someone, somewhere, pays the tab for everything in this world. Hell, you can't even die for free - the funeral industry is a huge enterprise, one that makes a killing on people dying of natural causes. In this instance, I'm going to cheat the bastards, though. My carcass will be donated to the University Of Maryland School of Medicine. When they're finished with me, they'll cook me down to a box of ashes and send me home.

So, judging from your response above, can I assume that you have not set up an IRA? I sincerely hope you have, if for no other reason, for your family's sake when you take the dirt nap. Dying ain't cheap.

Gary

I wish I could have retired when I was around 14...then I could have played just for the fun of it and wasted the profits on silliness like food, clothing and shelter.

Ian

I know a lot of guys that pray for that scenario . Guess it depends on the relationship you have with your spouse. Anyway, maybe that's the price they pay for outliving us. Wherever possible, women should always marry for money, not love. Much safer. Plus, it would inspire us guys to work harder to make more money.

Just an alternate POV.

chas

Well, there he goes ... spreading that good old Maryland sunshine around!

I drove a taxi in Melbourne Australia for 7 years and actually drove an armed holdup getaway with a sawn off shotgun at the back of my head ... you gotta do whatya gotta do to survive.

How much was the split Nigel?
Were you Darcy Dugan's driver ??
Ray

I drove cab part time for about a year to help out a buddy, and the worst thing that happened to me was a little old lady (who must have been in her 90's) sat in the back and kicked the back of the front seat all the while yelling for me to drive faster!

She was going to the liquor store...which was where I left her, the charming old bat.

Jeeeez! That was quite an experience to go through, Nigel, and I suspect you were pretty careful not to drive over any bumps, lest that shotgun went off accidentally...in any case, I'm sure the last thing you wanted going through your mind was a load of buckshot!

You were a lucky man...sometimes robbers will "neutralize" any witnesses , not to mention the chance of being shot by the coppers if a shootout should occur.

Ian

After a particularly bumpy landing (max crosswind), I had a 'little old lady' ask if we landed or were we shot down. Charming old bat.

chas

THE DEAD MUSICIANS DIRECTORY
a site about dead musicians and how they got that way

http://elvispelvis.com/grimreaper.htm

This thread got so morbid and sad, I thought I'd put the final cap on it. Break out your hankies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaAgJBAvWP0

chas

Actually the shotgun did go off after he moved it from the back of my head and blew a hole through the seat right next to me and blew a hole in the door. When he asked me to stop and let him out he actually paid the fare on the meter which had been running the whole time. My wife saw it reported on the TV news and contacted me at police HQ.

Yikes! You were lucky to have any hearing left after a blast like that going off in the car...not to mention having the other vital parts of your body left intact as well.

Years ago, an old drinking buddy of mine fired off just a .22 cal magnum revolver in the back seat of a car (he was shooting out the open rear door window), and that left my ears ringing for days afterwards...that shotgun would have been so much louder.

You were a very, very fortunate man to get away unscathed...and you also still made the fare...cool!

Ian

Nigel ... that HAD to be too close for comfort ... and nerve racking for your wife as well ...

My father drove a cab in Staten Island NY for a while ... I was always afraid when he was out that something like that might happen ... he was robbed at knife point once ...