And while they are often better in soundquallity, are they so much better then arranger sounds...

Well, sounds that require a lot of memmory to get the dynamics right, like grand pianos, drums, percussion, E-pianos and the like sound better and are even better playable on VSTs...

Synthesizer sounds, are in the next heaven compared with what current hardware synths produce, just get yourself some multi synthesis VSTs like Alchemy or Omnisphere and play with them

But, when playing acoustic instruments like saxes, strings and brass on VST,s you quickly realise that they require like 14 switches to use in real time to have that really great sound, which works perfect for non realtime creating tracks...

But hey, i am an arranger player, and while playing me arranger i am continously using two hands to controll my right and left, or my piano parts... While selecting variations and fills and switching instruments... Sure i can use two footswitches and sometimes even my wheels to controll my right hand performance and select articulations.... But in the end the end there is only so much one can do.

And thats where SA2 voices and super naturall acoustic sounds set appart and even the T5 ensemble voices add a lot of dynamics not found in VSTs.. There is not much automation. The way for exampl T5 SA2 guitars handle strumming and other noises and pickings is just perfect, its a combination of articulations and build in intelligence that allow for super naturall sounds (same goes for Roland) with a single hand, while using the 2nd hand mostly for all things arranger related..

And this is the reason why todays better Yamaha arrangers currently outshine VSTs for live playing.. The sound is very close to the VSTs and more then convincing enough, while they are very playable..

And when you look at the Kronos and the topline roland instruments (super natural synthsounds) that show that you can have convincing analogue synth emulations with more then enough realtime controll to stay on par with a lot of the software...

If they finally start making arranger workstations with current day hardware loads of cheep memmory, huge SSD drives, then they will outshine the software in almost any form... Combine T5 with the way you could add different synth engines to OASYS, and you have the future...

PC software is for studio jobs, and situational deejaying( synth and drum sounds) and the standard keyboard instrument stuff (piano, organ) but as soon as you want real time playable acoustic instrument emulations, you have two choices Yamaha SA2 and Roland super natural acoustic sounds...

This is also where Korg is missing out, their acoustic instruments emulations.. DNC is comparable to SA1 voices and the acoustic instruments we mostly see in VSTs they need to much input..... SA2 and Roland Super Naturall Acoustic sounds are on a different level as they are a combination of sampling and the VL technollogy.... Korg does not have this yet... Not even in the Kronos, which makes me wondering how Korg is going to solve this in the Pa4x thats comming up next year....

I personally love the automasation in both my T5 as in the Roland instruments...

So is it correct that the Yamaha S950 does not have these 'automatic' SA2 voices that react without having to use buttons?

What I'm still missing regarding the Integra supernatural guitar strumming, I can't simulate a quick "up and down" strumming, which I would need for a lot of strumming patterns. I would imagine it could be triggered by pressing and then releasing the keys again and again in a rhythmic way, but this isn't implemented. (There is however the possibility to program a PCM guitar voice that starts when releasing the key, but that would be a different sample then, it should be integrated in the supernatural guitar voice as an option).

The Psr 950 indeed does not have sa2 voices..... T has however sa1 voices that work the same as Korgs Dnc sounds... It uses legato play... But all other fancy things require player actions...

I don't know about your S-950 voices, but I have several that respond to key pressure and create some incredible effects. What more do I need than realism? Is there something I'm missing?

Gary

This was obviously meant as a reply to Gary regarding the difference SA1 vs SA2.

I guess my point was within my question "What more do I need than realism?"

If the voices sound realistic, do I really need the SA2 voices in the S-950? Those guitars in the S950 are absolutely incredible, some of the sax, trumpet and brass voices are beyond my wildest expectations. I was amazed at the realizm the first time I hit the falloff trumpet voice.

Now, the audiences, obviously, know there's no guitar, sax or trumpet players standing there with me. But, they too are amazed at what that keyboard does every time I fire it up and perform a song. I'm not the gifted, talented player some that others on this forum obviously are, but I really love the sounds coming out of that S-950 and from my point of view, it's probably the best bang for the buck on the arranger keyboard market today. Of course, all Roland and Korg owners will now chime in and disagree.

Cheers,

Gary

If it does what you want, then that’s all that’s needed.

Others that require different things will disagree, but none is either right or wrong, it’s just down to personal preference.

Enjoy whatever you play.

Bill

I don't regard the automatic behavior modeling as too important either, at the moment I'm excited by the automatic guitar strumming. - On the other hand, I am currently preparing another great Bert Kaempfert tune, Happy Trumpeter, and I chose NOT to take the Integra supernatural trumpet, but a MoXF jazz vibrato trumpet that doesn't have supernatural features. The sample with the vibrato just sounds nicer than the Integra trumpet. So SA2 oder SN-A sounds are not necessarily always the better choice.

Gary ... not to disagree - BUT - ... at the jam, I thought your S950 sounded good, but TO MY HALF DEAF EARS I didn't hear anything that would make me say "WOW, that 950 sounds a lot better than my Pa900" ... they are both in the same price range and I think the sounds and styles are quite comparable - some are going to be better in one, and some are going to be better in the other ... and personally when I tried the 950 at Frankie's, I liked the key feel of the 900 better ...
BTW ... I still think SOME of the sounds and styles in my 14 year old technics kn6000 are better than both ...but the kn6000 was a $3000 board so even given newer technology, that might not be a fair comparison ...
but I am very happy that we are both thrilled with the choice we made ...