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#393545 - 09/22/14 06:01 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: DAN.2000]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: DAN.2000
Before, virtual instruments were possibles, but we need to setup a virtual midi cable, and a VST host ...

Now it is even simpler, as vArranger includes a VST HOST with ASIO/WASAPI low latency output. It also includes a powerful virtual instrument that can load SoundFonts samples.

Now, I tend to prefer to use the included synth with soundfonts for the accomp parts, because I am sure of his behaviour. It is full GM2 compliant. It reacts perfectly to program changes. Most of VST instruments are not 100% GM compatible.

I reserve the big VST instruments for my Right hand solo voices, that can be controlled from vArranger

This is something recent in vArranger, and I still discovering all what can be done, but ... WOW !

I don't want to go hardware anymore


Thats why i suggested the integra 7, it has a great GM2 set, Roland has allways been the king of GN2 sounds ever since their orriginal SC... But if you say that you have a great software solution with a vst loading soundfonts, then i guess thats even better... Did i understand correctly that Varranger ships with this VST?


Still hoping you will be adding rewire support to the Varranger, it will allow people to integrate the Varranger with their professional DAW.. Allowing for new potential buyers..
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#393546 - 09/22/14 06:29 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: Bachus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
It all sounds so complicated that's why players rather just buy a nice arranger T5, Pa3x etc, and have it all in one. I may be wrong but Most have no idea about all this VST stuff and just want to power up and play. You can have all the VST sounds you like but in the end its still not the original instruments and honestly what we have today in Arranger Kb, & Workstations is more then enough & close enough sound realism for me. keys For myself on stage I could never use a computer based setup as the navigation vs an all in one unit is much more difficult in a Live "on stage" OMB playing situation when making lightning fast onboard button changes,...
in a studio recording is another story. If I could be proven wrong I's invite the opportunity to see that happen. Just my take on this ..

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#393547 - 09/22/14 06:51 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: Dnj]
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
The software is not more difficult, but it surely is different. Like all other things, one could learn the new workflow, if so has the inclination to do. But the flexibility is great. It is not yet a mature, stabile and reliable to compete with the classic hardware arranger, but it will slowly get there.
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#393550 - 09/22/14 07:00 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: adimatis]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: adimatis
The software is not more difficult, but it surely is different. Like all other things, one could learn the new workflow, if so has the inclination to do. But the flexibility is great. It is not yet a mature, stabile and reliable to compete with the classic hardware arranger, but it will slowly get there.


I am talking from a Prof live KB performers OMB live stage playing view.
If I could use a laptop and a controller KB as proficiently as an all in one arranger KB I'd be there in a minute keys .....
but as you say above...."It will slowly get there" frown

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#393551 - 09/22/14 07:04 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: Dnj]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Donny nailed it for me. I'm not, or ever, about to enter geekdom. I'm happy to rock on with my Korg as is - I don't need anything else.

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#393552 - 09/22/14 07:15 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: 124]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: 124
Donny nailed it for me. I'm not, or ever, about to enter geekdom. I'm happy to rock on with my Korg as is - I don't need anything else.


As it is now I manage with workarounds using my S-950....but I do miss many things from all my KORGs including my Pa3x,...and from my Tyros & Roland & Ketron units also. But I weighed all the needs and at this time make it all work even with the drawbacks for my needs on stage EVERY DAY & NIGHT IN THE TRANCHES...I hopefully await what will available in the future and only then when I demo and see if the sound & navigational features fit MY Needs I will make a change again. But as of now it's all Apples & Oranges. cool2

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#393553 - 09/22/14 07:22 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2441
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
For what its worth I'm finding myself doing more Piano with simplier backing on my gigs. All the programming I've done for other sounds is just not that important. Maybe a sax, guitar or organ solo thrown in sparingly. Keep the vocals up front and have good bass and drums and for the most part your there. I don't even use the great Hammond sounds in my BK9 much.

Thats for live work. For Studio or Recording projects bring on all the new toys.
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#393556 - 09/22/14 07:33 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I feel that no matter how good the samples sound, it's depends mainly on the player's skill to make them sound convincingly realistic.

Knowing how the real-life instrument responds to the player, and the keyboard player having (or developing) the skills necessary to make the virtual instrument (whether in an arranger or as a VST) respond in a life-like manner, makes a big difference.

Some VST's and samples (Yamaha's SA/SA2 and Korg's DNC) have performance enhancers built in, but it still boils down to the virtuosity (and instrument knowledge) of the player.

Ian
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#393557 - 09/22/14 07:46 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: ianmcnll]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
I feel that no matter how good the samples sound, it's depends mainly on the player's skill to make them sound convincingly realistic.

Knowing how the real-life instrument responds to the player, and the keyboard player having (or developing) the skills necessary to make the virtual instrument (whether in an arranger or as a VST) respond in a life-like manner, makes a big difference.

Some VST's and samples (Yamaha's SA/SA2 and Korg's DNC) have performance enhancers built in, but it still boils down to the virtuosity (and instrument knowledge) of the player.
Ian


Good points .... what your saying above Ian makes all the difference as a player. Years of live stage experience playing with a band is essential besides knowing how to emulate using an arranger keyboard using all the sounds required "played correctly" to make the whole package believable. This is where many players lack knowledge and it will always show when your listening. headphone You have to "think like a "group playing",...."think & know how to" as if you were really playing that instrument playing it "within it's perimeters" also. An arranger is a very complex instrument that can sound fantastic or the complete opposite in the wrong hands as a solo OMB or sitting in the mix accompanying a vocalist.


Edited by Dnj (09/22/14 07:52 AM)

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#393558 - 09/22/14 07:50 AM Re: XK-3c using with Auto Arranger Keyboards [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: Dnj
It all sounds so complicated that's why players rather just buy a nice arranger T5, Pa3x etc, and have it all in one. I may be wrong but Most have no idea about all this VST stuff and just want to power up and play. You can have all the VST sounds you like but in the end its still not the original instruments and honestly what we have today in Arranger Kb, & Workstations is more then enough & close enough sound realism for me. keys For myself on stage I could never use a computer based setup as the navigation vs an all in one unit is much more difficult in a Live "on stage" OMB playing situation when making lightning fast onboard button changes,...
in a studio recording is another story. If I could be proven wrong I's invite the opportunity to see that happen. Just my take on this ..



Its not more complicated, well... Not much at last as long as you are very proficient with computers in general and music software in special...
The G70 i bought this weekend for the kids comes with a manuall of over 350 pages, FL studio comes with a manuall just as extensive but not even 200 pages.. Same goes for every VST i own... Instruments like G70 or PA3x are just as complicated.. Yamaha in general is a bit easier...

The biggest difference from software instrument setups, is that nothing works out of the box, and everything needs to be tweaked or tuned, which is time many around here would rather spend just playing their instruments..

Me myself is very happy with my T5, and the ocassionall ( mostly synth ... And offcourse a decent piano) VST sounds on top of that... The power of the T5 compared to many VST sounds is that they are built to be played in real time, where in the VST world many of the best sounds are archieved by tweaking in the mixdown.. To get the most out of NI strings for example, you need like 9 pedals to choose articulations in real time...it can be done, but then it might drive most people crazy
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