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#393156 - 09/12/14 03:53 PM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: guitpic1]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15563
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I'll be more than glad to do a video the next time I have someone with me that can shoot the video. Maybe Monday night when I do the restaurant job.

Gary cool
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#393163 - 09/13/14 12:00 AM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: travlin'easy]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.

Somewhat hesitantly I enter the arena of this topic. I basically agree what Bachus says but there seems to be an element in this discussion being overlooked. An argument I have put forward on several occasions by the way.
I have now played arranger keyboards at home for over 20 years and recorded five or six CDs for friends and acquaintances. Many of you are familiar with some of my home-fried efforts.
As I rarely perform outdoors I have the luxury of concentrating on the arrangements of a song and willing the keyboard to fill in my thoughts on it. As an outdoor live performer you are much more limited cause the crowds ( whatever there number) want to be ENTERTAINED. And entertainment more often that not comes by way of recognizing the song and all the memories that go with it. Hence most keyboard entertainers will probably REPRODUCE the song as close to the original as possible. As such the step to midi files, karaoke files, backing tapes etc. is a very tiny one.
As I did a private gig last year with backing tapes I thought it would be nice to record a CD as such, a "quickie " so to speak.The response of all of those who heard/got it, though favourable was hardly any different than the one that I had gotten on the much laboured CDs in which I had gone to great lenghts to make my own arrangements and often entirely re-arrange a wellknown popsong.
In conclusion therfore I think that performing live these days it will make little or NO difference what entertainers use , as long as one is being entertained professionally. In this respect the arranger keyboard has no future. For those who not only like to fiddle with sounds (synthesizers etc.) but want to make entirely new arrangements of existing songs the challenges remain and the arranger keyboard remains a terrific tool.

regards
John

example of using an ARRANGER keyboard to its full potential:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZvgawOFiB8

example of " why bother with arranger keyboards ", just use backing tapes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFuDN3bHPw&list=UUbaSW7yCrf0Rfpks9L0WvwQ

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#393175 - 09/13/14 11:04 AM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: john smies]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: john smies

Somewhat hesitantly I enter the arena of this topic. I basically agree what Bachus says but there seems to be an element in this discussion being overlooked. An argument I have put forward on several occasions by the way.
I have now played arranger keyboards at home for over 20 years and recorded five or six CDs for friends and acquaintances. Many of you are familiar with some of my home-fried efforts.
As I rarely perform outdoors I have the luxury of concentrating on the arrangements of a song and willing the keyboard to fill in my thoughts on it. As an outdoor live performer you are much more limited cause the crowds ( whatever there number) want to be ENTERTAINED. And entertainment more often that not comes by way of recognizing the song and all the memories that go with it. Hence most keyboard entertainers will probably REPRODUCE the song as close to the original as possible. As such the step to midi files, karaoke files, backing tapes etc. is a very tiny one.
As I did a private gig last year with backing tapes I thought it would be nice to record a CD as such, a "quickie " so to speak.The response of all of those who heard/got it, though favourable was hardly any different than the one that I had gotten on the much laboured CDs in which I had gone to great lenghts to make my own arrangements and often entirely re-arrange a wellknown popsong.
In conclusion therfore I think that performing live these days it will make little or NO difference what entertainers use , as long as one is being entertained professionally. In this respect the arranger keyboard has no future. For those who not only like to fiddle with sounds (synthesizers etc.) but want to make entirely new arrangements of existing songs the challenges remain and the arranger keyboard remains a terrific tool.

regards
John

example of using an ARRANGER keyboard to its full potential:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZvgawOFiB8

example of " why bother with arranger keyboards ", just use backing tapes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFuDN3bHPw&list=UUbaSW7yCrf0Rfpks9L0WvwQ


John nice job as always...enjoyed listening I would also try recording some additional tracks to some of those songs to make them your own..... maybe some String layers, or a Brass section, Vocal Harmony parts, etc, using your arranger..keep them coming !! keys

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#393177 - 09/13/14 11:48 AM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: Dnj]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.

Thanks Donny,

The videos included were more meant to illustrate the issue of this thread. I find it hard and not necessary to add stuff to complete commercial backing tracks as they often are pretty much an exact copy of the hit song itself. ( that is if it is a good one). the Streets of London song was recorded way back when in 2004 with my PA80 that sported no vocaliser hence the additional voice tracks sung by yours truly. Using my current PA800 I make more use of its vocaliser though I am not always that impressed by its results. It is also a matter of taste really. Currently as some of you may know I am doing a project via the internet with a musician living in another part of Holland and so far we have completed four songs, two of which can be found on my youtube page under the heading "musical collaboration". Yet another different approach as I am not using backing tapes nor arranger keyboard, but start from scratch with guitar and vocals. Both Carlo and I do use our arranger keyboards later on but oddly enough not the arranger section but sounds to embellish the basics or/and add bass and sometimes percussion. Being enthusiastic about the collaboration as well as inspired I tend to get carried away by it as you can notice for yourselves overhere. I still think that, getting back to the issue of this thread, the audiences in general could not care less where the music is coming from, as long as the performer and sound are up to scratch, as long as they are having a good time and as long as they (preferably instantly) recognize the song being performed smirk

regards,
John

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#393178 - 09/13/14 12:02 PM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: john smies]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: john smies
I still think that, getting back to the issue of this thread, the audiences in general could not care less where the music is coming from, as long as the performer and sound are up to scratch, as long as they are having a good time and as long as they (preferably instantly) recognize the song being performed



John you make very valid points, after all we are "Musicians"....
and "Creating MUSIC" is what we do!!

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#393180 - 09/13/14 01:52 PM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: john smies]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: john smies

Somewhat hesitantly I enter the arena of this topic. I basically agree what Bachus says but there seems to be an element in this discussion being overlooked. An argument I have put forward on several occasions by the way.
I have now played arranger keyboards at home for over 20 years and recorded five or six CDs for friends and acquaintances. Many of you are familiar with some of my home-fried efforts.
As I rarely perform outdoors I have the luxury of concentrating on the arrangements of a song and willing the keyboard to fill in my thoughts on it. As an outdoor live performer you are much more limited cause the crowds ( whatever there number) want to be ENTERTAINED. And entertainment more often that not comes by way of recognizing the song and all the memories that go with it. Hence most keyboard entertainers will probably REPRODUCE the song as close to the original as possible. As such the step to midi files, karaoke files, backing tapes etc. is a very tiny one.
As I did a private gig last year with backing tapes I thought it would be nice to record a CD as such, a "quickie " so to speak.The response of all of those who heard/got it, though favourable was hardly any different than the one that I had gotten on the much laboured CDs in which I had gone to great lenghts to make my own arrangements and often entirely re-arrange a wellknown popsong.
In conclusion therfore I think that performing live these days it will make little or NO difference what entertainers use , as long as one is being entertained professionally. In this respect the arranger keyboard has no future. For those who not only like to fiddle with sounds (synthesizers etc.) but want to make entirely new arrangements of existing songs the challenges remain and the arranger keyboard remains a terrific tool.

regards
John

example of using an ARRANGER keyboard to its full potential:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZvgawOFiB8

example of " why bother with arranger keyboards ", just use backing tapes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFuDN3bHPw&list=UUbaSW7yCrf0Rfpks9L0WvwQ


As a musician, i really like the first one, the arrangement makes it a John Smies special, and while i know better arrangements, its this arrangement that gives the song your character..

But the average crowd might prefer the orriginal by Ralph McTell i believe, or even th dutch version of Guus Meeuwis
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#393182 - 09/13/14 05:46 PM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: Bachus]
KORG80 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 654
Good thing Karaoke can't do originals!

Here's my latest original recorded under some duress. Think I've got the flu.


https://app.box.com/s/vbw5wqmgm8q2nmk3rcir]

Faithful/ Jazz stylings

God Bless,
Don


Edited by KORG80 (09/13/14 05:50 PM)
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God Bless,
Don

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#393189 - 09/13/14 08:18 PM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: KORG80]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Don ... A nice song and well presented - ESPECIALLY if you have the flu! - but, being totally honest, I didn't care all that much for the piano 'comping' in this song ... perhaps the use of an organ voice sustaining the chords would work better? ...
Feel better, friend,
God Bless,
_________________________
t. cool

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#393191 - 09/13/14 08:33 PM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: tony mads usa]
KORG80 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 654
Thanks Tony,

I'm going to take up your suggestion and start working on some organ chops. To be honest the number of organ sounds available kind of intimidates me. I also find the organ sounds really need to be reigned in as they tend to overpower everything. I agree a nice jazz organ probably would have worked. The other thing about the organ sounds is (correct me if I'm wrong!) that I believe most of the time the organ should be played in a higher octave than piano using sparse one handed chords.

Thanks for listening!

God Bless,
Don
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God Bless,
Don

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#393192 - 09/13/14 08:41 PM Re: Karoke is the real competition [Re: KORG80]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Don, you are right that the organ voices can be overpowering, but I think played softly 'in the background' they can add a nice underlying layer of sound ... and I think a 'jazz' organ voice would work well with the style ...

And thank YOU for contributing ...
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t. cool

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