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#383396 - 02/01/14 11:34 AM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Saswick]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Saswick
BTW Donny: I already did my Beatles tribute "In My Life" but I'll grind out another one if you wish. singer
Kind RegardsCol


Col one of my favorites is "It's Only Love" headphone



Edited by Dnj (02/01/14 11:38 AM)

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#383403 - 02/01/14 12:05 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Diki]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: Diki
Nice. Simple arrangements for simple songs.

About the only thing I might suggest is, solo the guitar track, listen to how much (or little) reverb there is, and roughly what size room it is in, then, on small intimate things like this, try to match the vocal reverb to the instrument reverb.

Think of it this way... you are trying to give the impression that someone is standing there with a guitar and a bass player, singing the song. So, you are all standing in the same room. Ergo, the same reverb characteristics. So now, the reverb DEPTH becomes a 'distance' parameter. The more reverb, the further back in the room you are standing.

Thing is, maybe the bass player is standing behind you a little bit, but that guitar and you are up front, center stage. So be careful to not push your vocals deeper into the room than even the instruments.

Panning and reverb especially, think of them as a way to paint a picture. Use them to place your players where they would naturally stand if they were on stage, and the believability of the mix goes up an order of magnitude.

Of course, nothing to stop you painting an abstract picture, or an impressionist picture, but if you are shooting for realism, have a care with that reverb! This sounded like the room was too small to be that loud in the mix. If you want wet, make it bigger, or simply dial it down until it become just a bit more than dry...

But you are definitely going in the right direction! Maybe next time, add a string pad under the guitar for the middle section, drop it out at the end, you've got a full arrangement with simplicity at its heart..!





Diki, I have to disagree about using a string pad..He is capturing a small stage..and where are you going to fit a string section, according to the great suggestions you made about placement..
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#383408 - 02/01/14 12:20 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Saswick]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
String quartet, or octet? How small a stage are you talking about, Fran?!

Anything that can't fit an octet, that's not a stage... that's a postage stamp! You place the singer/guitarist in the middle of a semi-circle of string players, that's still pretty intimate.

Thing is, Col used a TINY room around the voice. It it were matched to the size around the guitar, there'd be room for the string section. And all this is simply a guideline. Adjust your room for the size of the ensemble you intend to put in it. Plus, the size of the room and the size of the STAGE are two different things. You can have small stages in quite large rooms, and vice versa. The POINT was consistency, rather than size...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#383417 - 02/01/14 12:45 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Dnj]
Saswick Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 875
Loc: Garstang, Preston, Lancashire,...
Donny: believe it or not, coming from within 30 miles of Liverpool I've never heard that song before, so you'll have to make do with "Yesterday", tomorrow or the next day or ASAP LOL

Col rotfl

PS: I don't do requests for everyone you know.

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#383420 - 02/01/14 12:50 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Diki]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By: Diki
String quartet, or octet? How small a stage are you talking about, Fran?!

Anything that can't fit an octet, that's not a stage... that's a postage stamp! You place the singer/guitarist in the middle of a semi-circle of string players, that's still pretty intimate.

Thing is, Col used a TINY room around the voice. It it were matched to the size around the guitar, there'd be room for the string section. And all this is simply a guideline. Adjust your room for the size of the ensemble you intend to put in it. Plus, the size of the room and the size of the STAGE are two different things. You can have small stages in quite large rooms, and vice versa. The POINT was consistency, rather than size...


All good points Diki, in theory, but in practice - one rarely hears a band of larger than 2 pieces without vocal processing. That practically eliminates the natural sound of the room/space. As a singer first and musician second, I make my voice sound the way I want before I even consider any other sonic enhancements. Your advice was good from an engineers point of view, but as a live performance - I think Col made the right decisions.
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#383423 - 02/01/14 12:54 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Saswick]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Col, if you are doing your mix inside the DAW, do you have a convolution reverb? Those are extraordinarily good at emulating rooms, halls, theaters and the like. Think of them as 'sampled rooms'.

For stuff like this, try recording the instrument parts bone dry, then use a theater convolution reverb (or whatever size you want) and send the instruments with enough to make them sound live, and your vocal just a BIT drier...

I have had great success making small stage and theater projects sound like they WERE in a theater...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#383448 - 02/01/14 01:46 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Diki]
Saswick Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 875
Loc: Garstang, Preston, Lancashire,...
Diki: Yes I am mixing in Cubase and there does not appear to be a convolution reverb, I actually used a Plate Reverb in Annie's song as per your previous suggestion.

I used the style from the G70, Ballroom category - Slow Waltz with only the bass, very light drums and two Guitars, effects as per style.

Should have used another variation to bring in the strings but was busy at the time LOL, have to get a FC-7.

Col

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#383454 - 02/01/14 02:03 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Saswick]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
You could always just have strings on the LH and pad up the middle with that, or even PLAY a string part as an audio overdub in Cubase (probably the best way to get the voicings right).

But all you are really looking for is a color to add to spice up the middle, and give you somewhere to build and ebb to and from. Doesn't have to be strings... a mellow string synth pad or other pad will do just as effectively. Essentially, you are looking to break up the 'sameness' through the song. Even a fill and a busier Variation for the middle chorus (maybe the guitar picks just a bit busier or another guitar joins in) will do the trick...

And yes, the FC-7 is my secret weapon! I could not play without one.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#383460 - 02/01/14 02:45 PM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: Diki]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Col ... you stuck your neck out and you head is still attached !!! ...really nice job ...
We can always learn from constructive criticism such as Diki's ... but I don't think that makes what you did wrong,- nor do I THINK that is what he is saying ... yours is just different from what he is suggesting ...
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t. cool

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#383504 - 02/02/14 03:11 AM Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL [Re: tony mads usa]
Saswick Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 875
Loc: Garstang, Preston, Lancashire,...
Thanks' Tony, the breathing is getting better with practice and as a result the confidence is growing. We'll see what the future brings.

All the best

Col

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