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#383385 - 02/01/14 10:47 AM
Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL
[Re: Saswick]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14200
Loc: NW Florida
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Nice. Simple arrangements for simple songs.
About the only thing I might suggest is, solo the guitar track, listen to how much (or little) reverb there is, and roughly what size room it is in, then, on small intimate things like this, try to match the vocal reverb to the instrument reverb.
Think of it this way... you are trying to give the impression that someone is standing there with a guitar and a bass player, singing the song. So, you are all standing in the same room. Ergo, the same reverb characteristics. So now, the reverb DEPTH becomes a 'distance' parameter. The more reverb, the further back in the room you are standing.
Thing is, maybe the bass player is standing behind you a little bit, but that guitar and you are up front, center stage. So be careful to not push your vocals deeper into the room than even the instruments.
Panning and reverb especially, think of them as a way to paint a picture. Use them to place your players where they would naturally stand if they were on stage, and the believability of the mix goes up an order of magnitude.
Of course, nothing to stop you painting an abstract picture, or an impressionist picture, but if you are shooting for realism, have a care with that reverb! This sounded like the room was too small to be that loud in the mix. If you want wet, make it bigger, or simply dial it down until it become just a bit more than dry...
But you are definitely going in the right direction! Maybe next time, add a string pad under the guitar for the middle section, drop it out at the end, you've got a full arrangement with simplicity at its heart..!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#383395 - 02/01/14 11:31 AM
Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL
[Re: Diki]
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Member
Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 875
Loc: Garstang, Preston, Lancashire,...
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Nice. Simple arrangements for simple songs.
About the only thing I might suggest is, solo the guitar track, listen to how much (or little) reverb there is, and roughly what size room it is in, then, on small intimate things like this, try to match the vocal reverb to the instrument reverb.
Think of it this way... you are trying to give the impression that someone is standing there with a guitar and a bass player, singing the song. So, you are all standing in the same room. Ergo, the same reverb characteristics. So now, the reverb DEPTH becomes a 'distance' parameter. The more reverb, the further back in the room you are standing.
Thing is, maybe the bass player is standing behind you a little bit, but that guitar and you are up front, center stage. So be careful to not push your vocals deeper into the room than even the instruments.
Panning and reverb especially, think of them as a way to paint a picture. Use them to place your players where they would naturally stand if they were on stage, and the believability of the mix goes up an order of magnitude.
Of course, nothing to stop you painting an abstract picture, or an impressionist picture, but if you are shooting for realism, have a care with that reverb! This sounded like the room was too small to be that loud in the mix. If you want wet, make it bigger, or simply dial it down until it become just a bit more than dry...
But you are definitely going in the right direction! Maybe next time, add a string pad under the guitar for the middle section, drop it out at the end, you've got a full arrangement with simplicity at its heart..! Thank you Diki, I take your point, I'll try tweaking the mix as you suggest, maybe see if I can slip a string section into the mix as well. I thought the original mix sounded a bit flat so I increased the reverb without thinking. By this time I should know better. Fran: I didn't think these Guy's did kind, I'd much rather have my butt kicked and told when thing's aren't as they should be. My most vicious critic is the one I live with if I can please her and I almost did with this one, things are on the up. Must find something to follow this with, any suggestions. BTW Donny: I already did my Beatles tribute "In My Life" but I'll grind out another one if you wish.  Kind Regards Col
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#383403 - 02/01/14 12:05 PM
Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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Nice. Simple arrangements for simple songs.
About the only thing I might suggest is, solo the guitar track, listen to how much (or little) reverb there is, and roughly what size room it is in, then, on small intimate things like this, try to match the vocal reverb to the instrument reverb.
Think of it this way... you are trying to give the impression that someone is standing there with a guitar and a bass player, singing the song. So, you are all standing in the same room. Ergo, the same reverb characteristics. So now, the reverb DEPTH becomes a 'distance' parameter. The more reverb, the further back in the room you are standing.
Thing is, maybe the bass player is standing behind you a little bit, but that guitar and you are up front, center stage. So be careful to not push your vocals deeper into the room than even the instruments.
Panning and reverb especially, think of them as a way to paint a picture. Use them to place your players where they would naturally stand if they were on stage, and the believability of the mix goes up an order of magnitude.
Of course, nothing to stop you painting an abstract picture, or an impressionist picture, but if you are shooting for realism, have a care with that reverb! This sounded like the room was too small to be that loud in the mix. If you want wet, make it bigger, or simply dial it down until it become just a bit more than dry...
But you are definitely going in the right direction! Maybe next time, add a string pad under the guitar for the middle section, drop it out at the end, you've got a full arrangement with simplicity at its heart..! Diki, I have to disagree about using a string pad..He is capturing a small stage..and where are you going to fit a string section, according to the great suggestions you made about placement..
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#383420 - 02/01/14 12:50 PM
Re: I'm really sticking my neck out with this song LOL
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
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String quartet, or octet? How small a stage are you talking about, Fran?!
Anything that can't fit an octet, that's not a stage... that's a postage stamp! You place the singer/guitarist in the middle of a semi-circle of string players, that's still pretty intimate.
Thing is, Col used a TINY room around the voice. It it were matched to the size around the guitar, there'd be room for the string section. And all this is simply a guideline. Adjust your room for the size of the ensemble you intend to put in it. Plus, the size of the room and the size of the STAGE are two different things. You can have small stages in quite large rooms, and vice versa. The POINT was consistency, rather than size... All good points Diki, in theory, but in practice - one rarely hears a band of larger than 2 pieces without vocal processing. That practically eliminates the natural sound of the room/space. As a singer first and musician second, I make my voice sound the way I want before I even consider any other sonic enhancements. Your advice was good from an engineers point of view, but as a live performance - I think Col made the right decisions.
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