Actually, three of the Tyros5 sales I was indirectly involved with, were 76 keys, and two of them are being used to gig.

One guy is replacing his 9000 Pro with the T5-76. He has a mini-van so the size isn't an issue. The other buyer uses a van as well.

The Tyros5-76's size only seems to be a problem with those moving them in cars, as it will not usually fit on the back seat of most small sedans.

I still feel most of Tyros sales are to home players, although that can always change.

What I find hard to understand is most of those who cried for a 76 note lightweight mid-priced arranger have not taken more interest in the BK-9, as Roland seems to have filled all their wishes and then some.

Ian

I have always considered Roland's an arranger that never sounds its best OOTB. For whatever reason, Roland's style makers struggled with getting the balance between each style Part and the RH Parts correct. Mind you, listening to swamped user demo after demo here and other arranger sites, it's a common problem! However, I think Yamaha do the best job of balancing the style Parts with each other OOTB. And, quite possibly, Roland the worst.

So, you buy a Roland, you really need to tweak each style you use. Not exactly the instant gratification that most arranger players are looking for..! But, as an audio professional, I usually EXPECT to have to work long and hard to force anything I buy off the shelf to how I want to hear it.

Add to that, Roland, by dropping the touchscreen, also dropped the OS they have spent the last eight years perfecting, and moved to a FAR more menu driven OS (until you get the iPad apps), which has probably been one of the main complaints I have had to deal with over at Roland-Arranger.com. It's not that you can't actually DO most things other arrangers do, it's just that figuring out how to do it, and getting used to doing it differently than you used to is often more than many casual players want to go through.

Then factor in that the BK-9 was the LAST arranger to come out in the BK series (by quite some time), and you have the situation that a large percentage of players that wanted a new Roland had already got the BK-5 (or passed, because it was something of a cheap feeling arranger - not as bad as an S950, but still quite lower than Roland had made in the past) and it's fair to say that the market was already saturated by the time it came out.

In fairness, Roland, particularly in the US, has been promoting and making dealers stock their arranger line poorly for a decade or more. Their WS's and synths are received very well, but the arrangers have long been a bit divergent from things like the PSR's and Tyros's, gradually getting perhaps further and further away from what the rapidly aging arranger market share is turning into. They have failed to age as much as the rest, I guess you could say. So it has been quite difficult for anyone to even SEE a BK-9, let alone play one in a store. That has been going on for a LONG time, and obviously is a poor decision.

Not only that, but Roland, particularly with the BK-9, have not shipped it with some content that shows it off at its best... The audio loop feature is absolutely a ground-breaking new feature, easy to use, and capable of making the arranger sound VERY contemporary, combining the best of sampled drums with audio loops is virtually the blueprint for modern music, and also goes a long way towards things like Yamaha and Ketron's audio drum features, allowing you to spice up what are already very live sounding drums with whatever you feel they don't do their best on (say some percussion, or brush jazz loops, or synth burbles and arpeggio figures).

But Roland failed to provide a USB stick with the arranger (either in the sale to the customer or to the dealer for him to demo it) with a bunch of these audio loops already set up to show this stuff off, so the feature never got the 'wow!'s it ought to have.

Personally, I still think Roland make fantastic arrangers, easily the equal or better of others, but they do BY FAR the poorest job of marketing and promoting them, and getting them into the stores.

And perception is everything, isn't it? LOL

I checked with our local dealer and no BK-9 for floor stock (demo), and none have been ordered since it's introduction....it may be different in the other provinces.

Again, I think it's rather weird that so many here on SZ were crying for a mid-line lightweight 76'er, yet when a good one is made available, very few even as much as commented on it.

Not the fault of Roland or the BK-9, (it appears to have hit all the buttons) but it does make one wonder about the value of such a poll.

Ian

What's wrong with it ? Nothing for me or really anyone if you get into it enough. 76 decent feeling keys, lightweight, great sounds and Styles, very good organ (I'll soon be selling my VR700 ) and features I'll probably never use but nice to have for a "maybe someday" . And its a professional looking Black too with no onboard speakers to ruin the sound or add weight and price. LOL ! JMHO

Everything Diki said especially poor demoing and marketing is true. Great instrument. Surprized it not a super hit here.

And for those wanting more than one LH voice you can set up a 8 patch soundset of Favorites for all parts. UP1, UP2, Lower, MBass. That means for each part you can have 8 choices of your favorites with one touch.
It does take a lot of work to get it where you want but I think everything you need is there. As I've said before get a second hand IPAD and your've got your touchscreen feature too. And the Ipad is useful for a million other things.

I really don't see the advantages of a 5K keyboard that everyone is jumping at. Whatever floats your boat but don't overlook the BK9 if your shopping.

TBH, most of those crying for a lightweight 76 REALLY wanted a lightweight 76 Yamaha!

If Yamaha introduce a 76 S950, I'm pretty sure you are going to see the forum poll reflect reality. Just look at the droves who are flocking to the 76 T5, despite many saying back in the day it would never float (or even be made)!

The making of the Tyros5-76 was just as much a surprise to me as the introduction of the chord sequencer on the BK-9 was to you.

I knew quite a bit about the earlier Tyros models well before their introduction, but in the case of Tyros5-76, we didn't get the slightest, tiniest, ittsy bittsy clue, so it may have been a very late decision.

In all likelihood it was to compete with the Korg PA3xPro-76.

What will be really interesting is if the 76'er continues on with Tyros6.

I hesitate to say there won't be a 76 note PSR series...but, if I'm proven wrong, at least there will be lots of people happy over it...ha ha!

Ian

I'm guessin that those that want a great sounding 76 key arrangerd, those that ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE A 76, for one reason or another, will end up with a T5-76. Now, what percentage of the arranger keyboard players that constitutes is up for grabs at this point, but I'm bettin that it's a lot less than 40 percent, especially if the pricetag is significantly higher. Just a guess, mind you, but from the standpoint of someone that has been around the barn for more than 50 years.

Cheers from on old codger,

Gary

Haven't we seen a post here recently (sorry where it is doesn't spring immediately to mind) that seems to claim that 40% or so of T5 order in the EU were for the 76?

That's pretty darn significant...

It really doesn't take any stretch of the imagination to conjecture that, if that kind of percentage of players would be into a 76 Tyros, if offered, that the same percentage would be into a 76 PSR also.

At this point, Ian, I would be careful about predicting anything!

As I seem to recollect, back a few years whenever this issue was brought up, you didn't so much 'predict' that Yamaha would never make another 76 after the PSR9000Pro, but as much as guaranteed it! Why, after all, would Yamaha make anything that none of its players had any need for whatsoever? LOL

I guess about 40% of all Tyros users are now thanking God that you weren't in charge of Yamaha!

It came fro a comment of the Yamaha sale manager in the Neterlands, 40% of all oreders where 76 keys

Yep, I was sure wrong about that one...

Perhaps I should predict that Yamaha will never have a chord sequencer?

Or, Roland will never again have aftertouch on it's arrangers?

There's an idea? Maybe I'll come out of retirement...Roland could sure use some help. Ha Ha!

Yamaha certainly doesn't need it.

Just like steering out of a skid...opposite lock. Who'd of thunk it?

Ian