YES ... they stopped making the BEST KBs when technics stopped !!! ...
Wonder if Rolls Royce will do the same with their cars Tony, they can't have been the best, can they, they would still be selling them.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey
If arrangers were never made at all it would make no difference to me. I'd simply play the piano, organ, or other keyboards and synthesizers available like always.
#377508 - 12/08/1312:29 PMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll
Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Good topic, Donny.
I'm pretty comfortable with the Tyros4, and wasn't tempted in the slightest by the Tyros5...or anything else from the other brands.
My arranger has all I need for the present and whatever comes along...it provides a good base to work from.
I have learned to dig in and maximize what I use, which in the case of the arranger, means editing and putting together new styles, as to me, that's what will make a person's arranger, and music created on it, have it's own signature. I believe the styles are the soul of the arranger. Yes, sounds are as well, but I have all the basics, like a great piano, electric pianos, guitars, saxes, strings, organs etc. and the memory expansion that lets me add more.
I honestly can't see me buying anything else for quite some time.
So, yes, I'd be happy with what I have, and more importantly, I don't think it needs anything to make my experience any better.
Technics ceased making arrangers because the numbers they sold were insignificant to Matsushita to matter. It doesn't mean the products weren't top notch or sold poorly, it just means the numbers weren't high enough for Matsushita to keep Technics viable to the corporation. When you're a multi billion dollar corporation, selling a few hundred thousand or so MOTL and TOTL arrangers is inconsequential. Those are the cold hard facts.
Yamaha is worth but a small fraction of Matsushita. What Yamaha may consider viable sales because a product generates a smaller revenue Matsushita sees it differently.
#377513 - 12/08/1312:51 PMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Tony Hughes]
jd5live
Member
Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 343
Loc: Bilston , West Midlands,Englan...
Hi Tony, Yamaha would love to have an arranger keyboard that can demand a secondhand price of over 50% of the original retail price some 11 !!!!! years from original launch here in Europe. They have only had one instrument that has been held in such high regard but it was an iconic synth the DX7.Unfortunately Matsushita in their wisdom decided to kill of the "Technics" brand,even their great mk1200 series DJ turntables! but when you are as large as Matsushita accountants rule the roost.Technics KN7000 was way ahead of it's time,shame we never had the KN8000 (we can only dream). John
Kit used Hammond T202/H112 plus Leslie speakers,Yamaha HS8+DX7 Technics GN9,Roland E86, Now the Greatest KN7000 Technics!!!
#377514 - 12/08/1301:08 PMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: jd5live]
Mockie
Member
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Dublin Ireland
Basically what has happened, we've all moved with the times, rightly so.
30 years ago, I thought I was the "bees knees" with my portable Hammond X5 (with pedals going through a small bass amp) and an Elka rotary speaker with a Roland SH 2000 on top. Just add a drummer, a great sound. Just imagine turning up with that gear to a gig now, we'd be laughted off the face of the earth. Like them or not, we will see new arrangers appear for years to come. They can deliver a very slick modern sound.
Frank
_________________________
Roland Juno DS-88 Roland BK-7m. Midi Accordion
#377515 - 12/08/1301:09 PMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: ianmcnll]
Dnj
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43707
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
Good topic, Donny.
I'm pretty comfortable with the Tyros4, and wasn't tempted in the slightest by the Tyros5...or anything else from the other brands.
My arranger has all I need for the present and whatever comes along...it provides a good base to work from.
I have learned to dig in and maximize what I use, which in the case of the arranger, means editing and putting together new styles, as to me, that's what will make a person's arranger, and music created on it, have it's own signature. I believe the styles are the soul of the arranger. Yes, sounds are as well, but I have all the basics, like a great piano, electric pianos, guitars, saxes, strings, organs etc. and the memory expansion that lets me add more.
I honestly can't see me buying anything else for quite some time.
So, yes, I'd be happy with what I have, and more importantly, I don't think it needs anything to make my experience any better.
Ian
Most dont even look at what their kb can do before buying another or upgrade etc.Been guilty of that myself until now with my S-950... .... If anyone missed what they had before it's an easy thing to go ebay etc, and buy it again at a mere cost of what they paid years ago ...... sounds & styles are pretty much peaking in technology today,.....on-board features & user needs are the wave of the future & what you can do with them to make music.
#377525 - 12/08/1302:21 PMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy
Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15594
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Chas, I WAS making a living as an entertainer long before Arranger keyboards became available. I was a good-looking, young kid fresh out of the U.S. Navy, owned a 6-string guitar that I purchased from a pawn shop along with a Fender amp and a Shure mic and stand. I sat on a stool in a honky-tonk bar, played nothing but country and light rock, sang to the ladies and made a whopping $50 for 4 hours work. Back than I thought that was a damned fortune. My day job then only paid $100 a week for 40-plus hours and I was considered among the highly paid workers for Bendix Field Engineering Corporation, traveling around the world setting up satellite tracking stations for Project Mercury. That was more than a half-century ago, though. So, if keyboards no longer existed, I guess I could go back to that, but I damned sure don't want to - I'm having too much fun with the keyboard and singing to the young ladies.
Cheers,
Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
#377526 - 12/08/1302:23 PMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Tony Hughes]
tony mads usa
Senior Member
Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14377
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By: Tony Hughes
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
YES ... they stopped making the BEST KBs when technics stopped !!! ...
Wonder if Rolls Royce will do the same with their cars Tony, they can't have been the best, can they, they would still be selling them.
Tony, as others have pointed out, it wasn't the lack of quality that caused technics to go out of business, but a business decision by Matsushita ... the last technics boards were SO far ahead of the curve and had features even some of the TOTL KBs today do not have ... they may not have been an Audya, but they were pretty damn good ...
For me, the need to upgrade is slowly diminishing with each change I've made. It was even a push for me to change from T3 to T4, and now that I have, the T4 has everything I want and beyond, I can't see myself changing my TOTL model in a hurry. It sounds wonderful and I can't fault it, so if there were no more arrangers available it wouldn't really bother me too much for this line.
The S950 however is almost perfect but I just wished it had better choirs and vocals, I am pretty sure the next S model will have these and that would probably be the only upgrade I'd need in that range (unless Yamaha release a choir pack for the S950).
We are lucky to have such fantastic instruments and you can't really go wrong whichever keyboard you buy.
For me, the need to upgrade is slowly diminishing with each change I've made. It was even a push for me to change from T3 to T4, and now that I have, the T4 has everything I want and beyond, I can't see myself changing my TOTL model in a hurry. It sounds wonderful and I can't fault it, so if there were no more arrangers available it wouldn't really bother me too much for this line.
The S950 however is almost perfect but I just wished it had better choirs and vocals, I am pretty sure the next S model will have these and that would probably be the only upgrade I'd need in that range (unless Yamaha release a choir pack for the S950).
We are lucky to have such fantastic instruments and you can't really go wrong whichever keyboard you buy.
Danny,
I think you are spot on the T4 will take some pull away to change and the better they get the more you are less likely to swap up one.
You do know that your closing quote " We are lucky to have such fantastic instruments and you can't really go wrong whichever keyboard you buy." I can here someone loading up the 50 mm cannon on the Messerschmitt 109 and he will be on your tail any-time now, he just needs to log a flight plan, daga daga daga daga, he'll be all over you like a rash
Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
I'd miss some things, but I could play out the rest of my career as long as I have something to play bass lines with, a drum machine (or drummer), and something to pound out chords on ... preferably an electric piano type sound. To be honest - my Antique Korg i5S that Boo sold me, would do the trick nicely ... IF it had to. My PA900 is filling the bill quite well for the next little while and there is nothing on the horizon that excites me. NOTHING.
_________________________
No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info
#377583 - 12/09/1308:35 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Uncle Dave]
Marcus
Member
Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
My Tyros 4 is now my gigging arranger that replaced my Tyros 3. Love the SA2 voices, the new choir/ vocal voices, and depth allowed in both the Voice And Style Creator.
The Tyros 4 flash memory was a huge improvement over the T3 DIMMs. Had to wait up to 20 minutes for my Custom and Expansion voices to load each time I turned on my Tyros 3. Those days will be over when my Tyros 5 comes in.
So if no more arrangers were made I would be abundantly satisfied with my Tyros 4, and pamper my backup Tyros 5 that will remain in my home/studio unless an important occasion warrants playing out.
I invested my time and energy learning the Yamaha OS, but any major manufacture makes a very good arranger to satisfy ones needs far into the future. Have to remember that these modern arranger do wear out and age, so I keep two at a time and trade up the oldest model every three years or so. For live performances your arranger must be dependable and must help make sure they remain dependable as possible.
#377650 - 12/10/1312:22 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Dnj]
Mark79100
Senior Member
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Dnj
At the very least it would force people top really DIG IN to what they now have and learn what these fantastic instruments are capable of.
I like this comment the best. Less time spent looking on the horizon and waiting for the next technological breakthrough and more time actually playing your present "technological breakthrough!"
#377662 - 12/10/1306:45 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Uncle Dave]
Bill Lewis
Senior Member
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2457
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
[quote=Uncle Dave]I'd miss some things, but I could play out the rest of my career as long as I have something to play bass lines with, a drum machine (or drummer), and something to pound out chords on ... preferably an electric piano type sound. To be honest - my Antique Korg i5S that Boo sold me, would do the trick nicely ... IF it had to. My PA900 is filling the bill quite well for the next little while and there is nothing on the horizon that excites me. NOTHING.
I think Dave hit it perfectly. For the limited amount and type of gigs for arranger players these days whats out there is enough. No one really cares about the greatest sax sound or a bunch of horn lines in the backround. If you've got a simple solid rhythm backing, some chords to fill in and a decent voice ( you reading this Deb ? ) your good to go.
Edited by Bill Lewis (12/10/1306:46 AM)
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer
#377663 - 12/10/1306:53 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Bill Lewis]
Dnj
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43707
Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
No one really cares about the greatest sax sound or a bunch of horn lines in the background. If you've got a simple solid rhythm backing, some chords to fill in and a decent voice your good to go.
That about says it all for a working OMB KB pro today.... add a versatile Powerful PA for all types of gigs & a laptop your good to go..
as a side note:.......... Yamaha & others should start thinking about years to come when all the 60's, 70's, 80's, "Wooden ORGAN BABY BOOMERS" are all gone,.....players will have many different needs when it comes to automatic arranger Kb's or whatever comes next down the pike,......
#377666 - 12/10/1307:18 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Dnj]
hammer
Senior Member
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2414
Loc: Texas
No problem for me. I'd buy a first rate rhythm machine or a great midi player plus a Vibes setup and continue to do my thing. Actually thought about doing that and if you think your TOTL arranger is expensive take a look at what the best Vibes cost these days! Mallet work was my forte when I was doing studio work in the 60's and 70's.
Then as as been posted above doing DJ work with a good laptop is also a great option.
[quote=Uncle Dave]I'd miss some things, but I could play out the rest of my career as long as I have something to play bass lines with, a drum machine (or drummer), and something to pound out chords on ... preferably an electric piano type sound. To be honest - my Antique Korg i5S that Boo sold me, would do the trick nicely ... IF it had to. My PA900 is filling the bill quite well for the next little while and there is nothing on the horizon that excites me. NOTHING.
I think Dave hit it perfectly. For the limited amount and type of gigs for arranger players these days whats out there is enough. No one really cares about the greatest sax sound or a bunch of horn lines in the backround. If you've got a simple solid rhythm backing, some chords to fill in and a decent voice ( you reading this Deb ? ) your good to go.
I would be perfectly satisfied with my PA3X-Pro 76. It's really the arranger of my dreams, because has the best feeling keybed, the best styles for the music I like to play and great sounds (plus 256 Mb of RAM to load even more of them). Right now in my house there are five keyboards, but if I had to choose just one it would be the PA3X.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.
#377672 - 12/10/1308:04 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Dnj]
DonM
Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I'm happy also with the PA3X. If I were just playing at home I would probably go for the 76, but since I move around a lot the 61 is better suited for me. Not saying I'll never change again, but sometimes I wish there WERE no options to change, so I wouldn't have to even worry about it.
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
I will comment from a different point of view.... I'm coming from the days of super sounding, beautiful Thomas and Yamaha organs. I don't sing, play for $$ for homes or dance party's....I play for the fun and to entertain family/friends.
If Yamaha was still selling TOTL Electones here in US I would have one, not an arranger. Don't need portability, vocalizer ect. BUT what I do need/want is very top of the line features/sounds. When I play I want the sounds to be superb as this is what makes it fun. I play mostly slower types of music vs dance so it matters what each note sounds like. I use a lot of orchestrial voices. I play the stuff like that's on Dish channel 973(easy instumentals).
Yep, I'm one of those old fogy organ players that likes really good sound. So the arranger is all I have to choose from. I add a second keyboard and pedals. Yamaha pulled the organs out of the US & Europe, Lowry is OK, but very expensive, and the sounds are just OK. (By the way Lowry is, I'm told doing quite well selling organs in US and Europe)
I had a T2, then a PA2XPRO...not bad but not what I wanted....I have spent lot's of time listening to T5 demos and I think it will be a good choice for what I want. They really have the sounds nailed. The new ensemble feature is absolutely awesome for a lot of what I like.
So, for me the answer to the question is NO, I would not be satisfied...because each new one is better in the areas that I care about, SOUND.
#377675 - 12/10/1308:24 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: leeboy]
Dnj
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43707
Originally Posted By: leeboy
I will comment from a different point of view.... I'm coming from the days of super sounding, beautiful Thomas and Yamaha organs. I don't sing, play for $$ for homes or dance party's....I play for the fun and to entertain family/friends.
If Yamaha was still selling TOTL Electones here in US I would have one, not an arranger. Don't need portability, vocalizer ect. BUT what I do need/want is very top of the line features/sounds. When I play I want the sounds to be superb as this is what makes it fun. I play mostly slower types of music vs dance so it matters what each note sounds like. I use a lot of orchestrial voices. I play the stuff like that's on Dish channel 973(easy instumentals).
Yep, I'm one of those old fogy organ players that likes really good sound. So the arranger is all I have to choose from. I add a second keyboard and pedals. Yamaha pulled the organs out of the US & Europe, Lowry is OK, but very expensive, and the sounds are just OK. (By the way Lowry is, I'm told doing quite well selling organs in US and Europe)
I had a T2, then a PA2XPRO...not bad but not what I wanted....I have spent lot's of time listening to T5 demos and I think it will be a good choice for what I want. They really have the sounds nailed. The new ensemble feature is absolutely awesome for a lot of what I like.
So, for me the answer to the question is NO, I would not be satisfied...because each new one is better in the areas that I care about, SOUND.
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7317
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I worked 9 jobs and spent almost 20 hours in studio last week without touching an arranger. 6 of those jobs were as a single.
Where there's a will, there's a way. I have my MS 60's which are still fine for my needs, plus a Midjay and an SD-5, which are not used. I even dug out my old auto orchestra, which, believe it or not, still works.
As long as I am able, I will be happy to work wherever and whenever I can and play whatever is available.
It's just that I can't get young girls to really dig smelly old grandpa's (LOL)!
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Donnie, Just listen to the 'In the Mood' towards the end and you will see where I come from as to the music I like to play. (the other parts of the demo are great too)
Actually take the time to listen to all 3 demo parts...pretty cool! Lee
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
If this (G70)was the last "arranger" keyboard I would own (play)...I would be content as a pig in slop..
After all, it is my current "best" keyboard in a group of excellent offerings....so why not be happy with it....
I use "arranger" keyboards because they can do everything...loaded up styles with pads playing....I can't stand ..I want a basic feel like a real combo band....this is more realistic, and leaves you room to play...you will also find me playing left hand bass 90 percent of the time...the other 10 percent with that basic style I mentioned...
Nothing screams "fake" like all that unrealistic sound coming from a board, while the player plays a scant chord and a melody line.. Arranger keyboards give us the best sounds, and options with OS that we can use on the job..Yes I will be content with my already dinasour...
#377695 - 12/10/1310:48 AMRe: If no more Arrangers were EVER made would you be..
[Re: Dnj]
Songman55
Member
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
I am very happy with what I have now.
Joe
_________________________
PSR S950, PSR S900, Roland RD 700, Yamaha C3 6'Grand, Sennheiser E 935 mic, several recording mics including a Neuman U 87, Bose L1 Compact, Roland VS 2480 24 Track Recorder Joe Ayala
I'd be happy with my old G1000! It made me money for nearly 10 years. The music and the audience hasn't really changed since then! I think most of us could go out on 20 year old gear and TBH, I doubt you would hear a complaint from a single audience member or club manager.
Truth is, most of the new stuff is for US, not them! I know I'm a bloody sight harder to keep happy and entertained than 99.999% of my crowd! Something new every now and again (say once every ten years, LOL!) gets me stoked, but the truth is, I doubt the audience cares as much as I do...
I am just happy now, with most of the G70 in a 20 lbs package, and the return of the Chord Sequencer, audio playback and live loops in my BK-9. This might be my deathbed arranger..!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
Put me in the longevity camp, too. Korg i30 from 2000-2009, and a used Pa1Xpro 2009-present. If I do move, it'll be to a Pa4X when it appears, or a used Pa3X. Not any time soon, though.
I also think future buying habits will change also...
It has for me already. Gone are the days when I felt I had to buy the latest thing, that mentality stopped at owning the PA1X, it was then I realised that I already owned something far more than I needed and it contained everything, great sounds/styles features. Keyboards are not going to necessarily improve anything you already do unless the sound difference has astoundingly changed which it usually doesn't.
until now with my S-950... 
.... If anyone missed what they had before it's an easy thing to go ebay etc, and buy it again at a mere cost of what they paid years ago 
...... sounds & styles are pretty much peaking in technology today,.....
..I want a basic feel like a real combo band....this is more realistic, and leaves you room to play...you will also find me playing left hand bass 90 percent of the time...the other 10 percent with that basic style I mentioned...
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