Jost,

I think the level of musicianship is definitely higher in Europe. I guess it’s the tradition of classical training. I’m sure my playing level would be much higher if I started off with classical training as a kid. But sometimes classical training can get in the way of creativity. Nobody can deny that that the best jazz, blues, rock, and county players are from the USA. Europeans and Asian players that deal with these styles look to the great US players for inspiration (and imitation)

Also it’s extremely rare to find anyone playing professional on arranger keyboard in the USA. Solo/duo acts are usually guitarists, pianists or sometimes horn players playing with tracks. Of course there are exceptions, like DNJ, UD, Don M, Gary, Hammer, Bill… that are out there working everyday on arranger keyboard but I bet for every pro arranger keyboards players there are hundreds of pro solo guitar players.

Tony, Most of the regulars here ARE professional players/entertainers, most have, at one time or another, have either been in a band, or in many instances, had their own band(s). Diki seems to enjoy knocking the NH circuit guys, intimating they couldn't get a job with what he refers to as a REAL band. Hey' it's just Diki being Diki. These guys are working 5 to 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, and most, including myself, are completely booked for 2014 and part of 2015. They're in high demand for weddings, private parties, and some still occasionally play the club and bar circuit, often filling in for someone who has other commitments, equipment failures, or is seriously ill.

There are players on this forum that ARE professionally trained musicians, but they don't feel a compelling need to brag about it. There are forum members here that have MORE technical expertise about the inner workings of arranger keyboards than anyone could imagine in their wildest dreams, again people that don't try to dazzle anyone with their level of expertise.

But if you need help with a problem, they're the first ones to provide assistance. Those are the folks that I look up to and highly respect on this and other similar forums. And, ironically, many of them play the NH circuit - it's where the money is, at least in this part of the world. From my perspective, they ARE professionals in every sense of the word. Not only are they skilled musician/entertainers, but additionally, they are skilled businessmen and women as well.

I guess in Holland and northern Europe every entertainer is a highly skilled, and trained musician/entertainer. I wouldn't know because it has been more than a half-century since I was there. Sure, I went to clubs and bars in that part of the world that featured musical entertainment, but I just don't recall them being any better, or worse, than entertainers in any other part of the world. In fact, some of the best I've encountered lately have been at Mexican seaside resorts. They were indeed incredible entertainers.

Cheers,

Gary



Cheers,

Gary

I am sure he meant "exclusively" professional.

One of the worst singers I've ever heard, but I liked a movie he was in and who really could really really use a pitch correction machine is Kris Kristofferson. If you think he can sing you are tone deaf too. Ha ha! Just a side thought. So, are you tone deaf too.

I really enjoyed playing Goin To The Mardi Gras by Professor Long Hair when it came out in the late fifties I was 16 years old. Then I enjoyed graduating to Body and Soul and tunes with meat to them . Something that was a real challenge at the time.

Ever since that time my pay went down. If you want to make a lot of money stick with rap and the crap you here today, but don't ask my opinion if you don't want to be offended. I'm not going to lie to you Okay? Go Saints and LSnU.

Lexington is a town of 300,000 and there are only 2 arranger players in the area.

As you'd expect, there are lots of guitar singles.

They're no competition at all; in fact most aren't accomplished enough to understand that they should be embarrassed at what they DON'T know how to do. They work for $100.00 at small local bars and nursing homes.

Kind of sad!


Russ

Of course I meant not 'exclusively' professional...

And sorry, but the vast majority of NH and senior entertainers I've heard here couldn't get a playing job in a real band in MY area. You are actually required to play more than hold a chord down with one hand and play the melody in the other (badly)!

There are some quite excellent singers amongst these players, but 'players'? Sorry.

The thing that worries me the most is, if these guys actually played with real bands in their younger days, what happened? Did they lose all sense of time and groove? Did they lose their ability to improvise a nice solo? Did they forget about chord substitutions, and voice leading? Has playing an arranger stunted them musically THAT MUCH? LOL

I'd better sell all mine, just in case...

Now that Diki has come out in the open with this I have to agree with him on this one in it's entirety, well if you post your work anywhere be prepare to be shot at, 1000 yards between the eyes, splat!!! I think there is only Diki who has the cojones to say it.

BTW Diki, sell what !, not in vogue anymore your stuff, unless you have been spending your hard earned cash on some tasty gear, the T5 is out anytime now, available in your area! play like Tostie then.

But Boo- I thought if you really wanted to make a lot of money, you should get a hot dog cart and start slingin'em!

One thing that Boo will never be accused of is crap singing, you can't sing and play the sax at the same time, or was that a stupid statement to make on SZ, can someone???

I'll apologize in advance if my words offend anyone, as that's not my intent. I'm merely trying to add my two cents in a substantive way, which may ruffle some feathers...

That said...

To my ears, my favorite arranger performers do seem to come from across the water. For example, I really like what Andrea does...Its not so much technically impressive, but his taste for what he puts out there. Its polished, its arranged well, etc.

From here in the States, my experience in hearing other OMB-ers whether in person or via websites like this has been pretty underwhelming. There's certainly a different grading scale for people who consider themselves professional versus people just playing as a hobby.

Two acts that stand out to me that are State based are Randy Sherwood, who I think puts out an outstanding product, and Donny Pesce. That may surprise some who may remember Donny & I banging heads a few times. All that aside, I really like Donny's approach. He knows what he's good at, he knows how to market himself, he knows how to keep his audiences happy. Is he the best player around here? No. Is he the best vocalist? again, no. But who cares? He's better than most guys out there and when you put it all together in a package as he has, he just crushes most of his competition.

Randy is a highly skilled player who time and time again puts out a very polished product. One very talented man, to be sure.

I obviously won't name anyone who's work I don't care for, but there is some positively dreadful stuff being posted to various websites that I can't for the life of me begin to understand why.

To bring this back full circle, I wonder if our friends in Europe are (for whatever reason) more self critical than most of us are here in the States? Being more self critical could explain why some feel the Euro players are superior to home grown players.

Interesting subject...