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#366655 - 05/23/13 12:39 PM Interesting use for the key-triggered loops
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
It occurred to me, as you can't drop Markers into MP3 or .Wav files (or at least, no current arranger can see them), you could use the key triggered audio loops (or audio multipads) as a substitute.

If you take a whole MP3 file, and chop it up into intro, verse, chorus, bridge, etc., and then assign them to keys, because they stay in sync (basically, you ask for a loop to start, the arranger waits until the 'one' to bring it in) you can now completely restructure an accompaniment audio file.

So let's say you have a tune with a solo section, split it off from the main song so you have a three part file (beginning, solo, ending) and start the song... now, when the solo is due, hit the key for the solo section, and now it will loop around as many times as you want, and you can go back to the regular ending whenever you feel like it. Cool!

I am unsure about Ketron, but Roland's have a limitation that only one loop can play at a time. However, in this context, it is not a limitation... Let's say you put the entire MP3 as the first loop. Now, you can just leave it alone and you'll get the entire song, in its usual format. But if you also have the other sections of the song ready to go on other keys, if you choose, you can jump to them (or back to them) at any time.

This is very much like having Markers in SMF's, except finally, you can do it to MP3's and .Wav's and them still be in sync.

Sounds fun!

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#366687 - 05/23/13 10:27 PM Re: Interesting use for the key-triggered loops [Re: Diki]
Henni Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3297
Loc: South Africa
Hi Diki,

What a great idea which would work extremely well in the Audya also.

Tx for sharing,

Henni
_________________________
Make sure you'll fly forever!

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#366691 - 05/23/13 11:20 PM Re: Interesting use for the key-triggered loops [Re: Diki]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: Diki
It occurred to me, as you can't drop Markers into MP3 or .Wav files (or at least, no current arranger can see them), you could use the key triggered audio loops (or audio multipads) as a substitute.

If you take a whole MP3 file, and chop it up into intro, verse, chorus, bridge, etc., and then assign them to keys, because they stay in sync (basically, you ask for a loop to start, the arranger waits until the 'one' to bring it in) you can now completely restructure an accompaniment audio file.

So let's say you have a tune with a solo section, split it off from the main song so you have a three part file (beginning, solo, ending) and start the song... now, when the solo is due, hit the key for the solo section, and now it will loop around as many times as you want, and you can go back to the regular ending whenever you feel like it. Cool!

I am unsure about Ketron, but Roland's have a limitation that only one loop can play at a time. However, in this context, it is not a limitation... Let's say you put the entire MP3 as the first loop. Now, you can just leave it alone and you'll get the entire song, in its usual format. But if you also have the other sections of the song ready to go on other keys, if you choose, you can jump to them (or back to them) at any time.

This is very much like having Markers in SMF's, except finally, you can do it to MP3's and .Wav's and them still be in sync.

Sounds fun!


Yes yes, sounds good...but it is one thing to mix the ingredients, how it comes out of the oven....entirely different.

Not dissing the idea, but if you get it to work I will be the first to take much interest and maybe revisit buying a bk9 smile

Audio markers are notoriously difficult to sync with smooth transitions, even in Live...

But good lateral thinking and keep us informed smile

Dennis

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#366709 - 05/24/13 12:28 PM Re: Interesting use for the key-triggered loops [Re: Diki]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
From what I've heard, the transitions between loops seem pretty decent. The trick is that they are cued up to play on the 'one', so how well they transition will be a function of how well you set the loop boundaries.

But bottom line is that anything you are playing or doing will tend to mask what goes on at the loop boundary, and I doubt anything untoward is going to go on, because a loop that hiccups or drops out at transitions would be no more useful on drum loops as it would on whole mixes.

The main issue comes from a song segment transitioning to some point other than it's normal destination. Naturally, this is going to depend on how varied the segments are. But if you loop a solo section, then have it come back to where it normally continues from, I don't see much cause for alarm, Dennis.

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#366710 - 05/24/13 12:30 PM Re: Interesting use for the key-triggered loops [Re: Diki]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
BTW, Roland state in the manual that MP3's come with a tiny silent gap at start and end. But AIFF's and .Wav's have no such thing. So, for the smoothest transitions, you'll want to be working with them, and not MP3's.

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#366716 - 05/24/13 12:55 PM Re: Interesting use for the key-triggered loops [Re: Diki]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
yep it does sound do-able for sure Diki...I would need to see evidence of it in practice before I committed though wink

I am sure you will figure it though, if it is at all possible smile

D

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#366744 - 05/25/13 11:36 PM Re: Interesting use for the key-triggered loops [Re: Diki]
Ketron_AJ Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3270
Loc: Middletown, DE
This can be accomplished with KEYTUNE in the Ketron AUDYA series with no glitches. A demo of this feature (KEYTUNE) will soon follow. You can either have the loop start instantly when the key is pressed, or no matter when the key is pressed (appart from on the top of the 1st measure), 'wait' and start at the top of the next measure.

Thanks.

AJ
_________________________
[KETRON - USA]
Design Engineer & Product Specialist.
www.KetronAmerica.com

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#366751 - 05/26/13 09:33 AM Re: Interesting use for the key-triggered loops [Re: Diki]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
This is only going to work if you use the 'wait until the 'one'' system, unless your timing is supernaturally accurate. The slightest inaccuracy will throw off the groove badly.

However, the Roland also does the other, 'instant on' system if you need it, as well. Handy for throwing special effects into a song, for instance.

But the 'wait for the one' system seems best for most uses, because if you change the tempo, the timing of the start of the loops (and their time-stretching) will all remain constant.

AJ... can the Ketron play multiple loops at the same time (for layering say a conga pattern with a tambourine loop for instance)? If so, can it be defeated? One of the important things about this idea is that the first loop MUST stop as soon as the second starts, or you will have two sections of the song playing at the same time.

I have been in contact with Roland about this, but it occurs to me that moving the loops OFF the keybed to say the FC-7 (or in the Audya's case, the touchscreen) would make a lot of sense. With something as critical to the backing as this would be, hanging out on the notes where you might accidentally play them is making more risk than it needs! Imagine the train wreck that might occur should you inadvertently hit the wrong key..! surprised

It makes sense to offer an alternative way to trigger these other than keys.

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